Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Thought I'd break the ice. I dont keep any ATB's YET...but I took some pics of this wild one in costa rica april 04.
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- Happy herping!

KE

heres the pic.

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- Happy herping!

KE

>>Thought I'd break the ice. I dont keep any ATB's YET...but I took some pics of this wild one in costa rica april 04.
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>>- Happy herping!
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>> KE

I first saw the pic and was thinking about the large scales and the huge amount of iridescence on that snake, then I read this post and bingo, Costa Rica, that's not an ATB but rather a Ruschi (corallus ruschenbergerii).

I'm pretty positive that that c. ruschenbergerii has been pooled with c. hortulanus now, but I'm not entirely sure...I was sure that was a c. hortulanus.
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- Happy herping!

KE

>>I'm pretty positive that that c. ruschenbergerii has been pooled with c. hortulanus now, but I'm not entirely sure...I was sure that was a c. hortulanus.
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>>- Happy herping!
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>> KE

No, they have not been pooled together. Amazons and Ruschis don't even share the same distribution area. Ruschis occure in the northern part of South America all the way up to Costa Rica and Guatemala (and of course Trinidad and Tobago). Amazons occure in the Amazon forest in South America (Orinoco and Amazon River basin). Amazons are even closer related to corallus grenadensis and corallus cooki than to ruschenbergerii.

everything I've read suggests the tree boas on the osa peninsula are c. hortulanus. in the feild I refer to those little guys as ATB's, I am aware that they are not actually an amazon species. we have a lot of slang terms for the animals down there. For instance, if I called a bothrops asper a fer-de-lance instead of a terciopelo I'm not suggesting I think that bothrops asper occurs outside of its range, in "real" fer-de-lance habitat.
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- Happy herping!

KE

>>everything I've read suggests the tree boas on the osa peninsula are c. hortulanus. in the feild I refer to those little guys as ATB's, I am aware that they are not actually an amazon species. we have a lot of slang terms for the animals down there. For instance, if I called a bothrops asper a fer-de-lance instead of a terciopelo I'm not suggesting I think that bothrops asper occurs outside of its range, in "real" fer-de-lance habitat.
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>>- Happy herping!
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>> KE

At least some action in this forum LOL...

What do you mean by "osa peninsula"?

Hortulanus only occurs in the Amazon Basin (that includes the entire Orinoco and Amazon River drainage), Hortulanus DOES NOT occure neither in Panama, nor any Central American country. You can not refer to them as ATB when they are not.

If you haven't had a look at corallus.com I would suggest that you take a look and check the distribution area of Amazons by yourself. In Costa Rica are no Amazons, those are Ruschis, Trinidad Tree Boas, Central American Tree Boas or Blacktailed Tree Boas, you can not refer to them as Amazons, that's simply not correct, in any "slang" you want to put it!!!

The Osa Peninsula is a remote peninsula in costa rica's southwest, covered on its western side by Corcovado National park. I am positive that it is c. hortulanus because it is definitely not an annulated tree boa, and according to The Amphibians and Reptiles of Costa Rica : A Herpetofauna between Two Continents, between Two Seas by Jay M. Savage, and my close scrutinization of the entire animal, its a C. hortulanus. That sp is the tree boa sp. in the Golfo Dulce region (Osa peninsula included)That book is regarded as the bible of costa rican feild herping...and I'll stick to it. I dont know if at one point what you are saying was accurate, with taxonomy changing under our noses every 5 minutes, but I'll believe the Savage guide first, no hard feelings.
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- Happy herping!

KE

Man are you stubborn. There are no hortulanus in Costa Rica, that is c. ruschenbergerii and if you have seen one of those (like the original pic you posted) and can't see the difference between those and Amazons then you are not paying attention.

You can not always believe what a single field guide says, get yourself the real Bible for tree boas from Robert Henderson and learn a bit more about them before you go and spread the wrong information further out!

PS: I just did a google search with "corallus in Costa Rica" and was actually SHOCKED by how many sites have that information wrong. I guess they all used that field guide you mentioned as "bible", LOL

.
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- Happy herping!

KE

I have read that some books like Neotropical tree boas by Robert W Henderson, gave a lot of taxonomic and geographical differents between hortulanus and ruschenberrgis and other books like Kelidoscopic tree boas by Peter J Stafford and Robert W Henderson do not even mention Corallus ruschenbergi as a different subspecie, if you note Robert W Henderson is the coauthor of the Kaleidoscopic also the author of neotropical, the big different is the year of publication been the kaleidoscopic the older from 1996 and neotropical from 2002, 6 year can made a lot of differences in taxonomy, so I will go with the Neotropical Treeboas as the most correct info and clearly said distributio for hortulanus southern Colombia, southern Venezuela, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Brazil, not even Panama is mention on this book, the distribution for rusche occurs from southern Costa Rica through Panama, east of Colombia and north of Venezuela, also said the ranges of hortulanis and rusch may exhibit a narrow zone of symaptry just south of the orinoco river in Venezuela, I think we have lot of similar problems with distribution and subspecies of the genus Epicrates, I'm not an expert, reptiles are just my hobby and this is just my two cents, love this kind of discussions, and please do not correct my spelling or my grammar, i knoe is a mess, English is not my primary language as you can see

In 1997 Henderson divided the hortulnaus complex (Formerly C. enydris) into it's current status of 4 seprate species...

C. hortulanus
C. ruschenbergerii
C. grenadensis
C. cooki

As of current Corallus research suggest, the above taxonomical division still stands and to date there have not ben any recognized changes.

There are only 2 Corallus species present in CR, C. ruschenbergerii and C. annulatus. Having seen them firsthand in Costa Rica, I can positively confirm that the animal you have pictured is C. ruschenbergerii. This is evident by the faded rhomboid pattern present on that animal (showing juvenile coloration still) pictured which is typical of Black tails in that part of Central America.

Perhaps "the bible" that you refer to was last revised prior to 1997 when the only two widely recognized species in the hortulanus complex were C. enydris and C. cooki? Regardless, I'm sure if th book states that C. hortulanus occurs in Costa Rica it is either in needup updating or otherwise just flat out wrong.

Below is a pic of a wild C. rushenbergerii from CR taken 2 years ago...

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Urban Jungles.com

>>In 1997 Henderson divided the hortulnaus complex (Formerly C. enydris) into it's current status of 4 seprate species...
>>
>>C. hortulanus
>>C. ruschenbergerii
>>C. grenadensis
>>C. cooki
>>
>>As of current Corallus research suggest, the above taxonomical division still stands and to date there have not ben any recognized changes.
>>
>>There are only 2 Corallus species present in CR, C. ruschenbergerii and C. annulatus. Having seen them firsthand in Costa Rica, I can positively confirm that the animal you have pictured is C. ruschenbergerii. This is evident by the faded rhomboid pattern present on that animal (showing juvenile coloration still) pictured which is typical of Black tails in that part of Central America.
>>
>>Perhaps "the bible" that you refer to was last revised prior to 1997 when the only two widely recognized species in the hortulanus complex were C. enydris and C. cooki? Regardless, I'm sure if th book states that C. hortulanus occurs in Costa Rica it is either in needup updating or otherwise just flat out wrong.
>>
>>Below is a pic of a wild C. rushenbergerii from CR taken 2 years ago...
>>
>>
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>>Urban Jungles.com

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Urban Jungles.com

>>>>In 1997 Henderson divided the hortulnaus complex (Formerly C. enydris) into it's current status of 4 seprate species...
>>>>
>>>>C. hortulanus
>>>>C. ruschenbergerii
>>>>C. grenadensis
>>>>C. cooki
>>>>
>>>>As of current Corallus research suggest, the above taxonomical division still stands and to date there have not ben any recognized changes.
>>>>
>>>>There are only 2 Corallus species present in CR, C. ruschenbergerii and C. annulatus. Having seen them firsthand in Costa Rica, I can positively confirm that the animal you have pictured is C. ruschenbergerii. This is evident by the faded rhomboid pattern present on that animal (showing juvenile coloration still) pictured which is typical of Black tails in that part of Central America.
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps "the bible" that you refer to was last revised prior to 1997 when the only two widely recognized species in the hortulanus complex were C. enydris and C. cooki? Regardless, I'm sure if th book states that C. hortulanus occurs in Costa Rica it is either in needup updating or otherwise just flat out wrong.
>>>>
>>>>Below is a pic of a wild C. rushenbergerii from CR taken 2 years ago...
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>Urban Jungles.com
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>>Urban Jungles.com