Reptile & Amphibian Forums

since we are the njhs of nj we are the ones who should try to change this law not complain about it lets go to the wildlife asscosiation of nj and tell them how we feel and we will work together to compromise these foolish laws who ever wants to help me try to change the crazy animal laws of nj reply to this message and tell your friends about it and everyone else you know and together we will tell them and discuss the ways we can abolish or revise these permits

The Herp laws arent that bad at all. So you can't own anything thats State Endangered, Venomous or any Crocodilians. Big deal. Pay your ten bucks for your hobby permit theres no limit on the amount you can own. If you want to sell stuff that you breed in state, get a retail or a wholesale permit whats the problem?

Keep in mind, that they could turn into a NY type law or even a complete ban, like in Detroit.
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1.0.0 Albino California King (Banded)
0.0.1 BTS (T. gigas)

As long as people don't do stupid things, Examples: the guy who got tagged by his illegal Gaboon viper in Northern NJ, the sixteen year old kid who got bit by a western diamond back he bought online (in Ocean County), the 4 foot alligator that was found loose in warren county, (the owner's neighbor turned him in) and the jerk who was selling Gila monsters in Vernon NJ. The State won't make NY style laws.
Its the idiots that ruin it for the good guys...

no that bad do you understand how lazy and stupid these people in nj no one wants to take these reptiles in crocs endangered torts so lets stop this come on we have to do something that can stop this does anyone want to contact the njhs about this

With Snakehound. I've said in this forum before that I don't think these laws are that bad. Permit=permitted=allowed. By having a system in effect where most species are already permitted protects us in for the most part. The only reason to cry about the law is because you either want a hot, a croc, or a massive boid. All of which can kill you. People who ask to be a snakehandling apprentice in one post and want to change the hot laws in the next scare me. Not to point finger at all, I'm not trying to place any kind of blame or anything. But think about what you want to change and why? Not to mention with a post marked as "popular" and I only make, what, the 5th or 6th person to post on the subject?

god all i wanted was someone to show me how to handle a venomous snake and give me somepointers so i can obtain a premit

This is not Florida. Working with a hot snake will not enable you to get the permit in NJ as you need a reason that the State finds legitimate to be considered for the permit.
The reasons that I am aware of for getting a hot permit are research and educational use. With research, you will need to be able to validate the research and have some form of credentials to back it up. As for the educational use, you would have to be established as giving educational talks before they would consider you for the permit.

With the hot stuff, one of the items that always amazes me is that people keep stuff without any idea if there is antivenom for it anywhere near by (according to the FDA, if the person/institution has a doctor willing to hold and administer the antivenom they have never refuced a permit to import antivenom) (You still need to get it cleared through customs though). Most Zoos only keep antivenom for the species that they have in their collections and if the bite is from a species not in the collections and not covered by the polyvalent you may have to foot the bill for emergency transport of the antivenom from across the country.

Ed

I find the permit laws of NJ quite fair. The only thing that is a little overboard(in my opinion) is the turtle law.

John

The turtle law is unusual to some extent because it is pretty easy to deal with, unlike some other states. For example, in Pennsylvania it is illegal to bring any turtle into the state if it has not had seven (7) consecutive negative fecals for salmonella as approved by the state vet of the state of origin. The PA has not enforced the law, but in return that means all of the turtles brought into the state since it was passed are illegal.....

Ed

The turtle law was put into effect by the NJ Board of Health, not the NJDFW. Besides the law states you connot buy or sell you still can own a turtle/tortise!! You just have to get it out of state...

Some laws are ok while others seem a bit much. You do not need a permit for an iguana (one of the worst reptile pets) BUT you cannot get a permit for a corn snake? That is ridiculous. The argument that people might release captive bred corn snakes is weak, at best. Besides, there were laws created against ‘liberation’ anyway. Furthermore, corn snakes are hands-down simply the best starter pet-reptile in the entire reptile industry. They offer vast amounts of educational value in all areas of herpetology (from simple husbandry to complex Mendelian genetics to conservation). No one, including an educator, can own one in the state unless it has ‘red eyes’ What a joke? The only places allowed to keep corns are institutions, some of which have horrible husbandry practices, as far as I have observed.

Please don’t misunderstand what I’m saying, I completely agree with laws related to crocs and venomous. There is little reason why anyone should own those types of animals in any state unless they have extensive background experience working with them or for research. Injuries related to these animals are what we most often hear about in the news all over the country.

Now, I could be wrong but I thought boa constrictors were legal and did not require a permit. Someone replied that larger boas are not allowed but I couldn’t find this anywhere in the pages and pages of legal jargon that makes up the nj herp laws. Besides, some dwarf island boa species only reach lengths of 3-5 ft. To start labeling which boas are dangerously too large and which ones aren’t would be splitting hairs.

While we, the animal lovers, could argue over the laws all day, it comes down to one thing and one thing only...MONEY and Politics. I seriously doubt that anyone involved with creating these laws had any other interest at heart. Not all reptile keepers are bad. NJ has hundreds of other laws unrelated to reptiles that are also ridiculous yet geared toward support of unions and other various political gains. But this isn't a political thread so I'll leave it at that.

Anacondas were added a few years back. BCI's don't need a permit, BCC's do or vise versa. I can't remember. I totally agree some laws are just plain stupid. But the majority of the laws people complain about in NJ as far as herps go aren't the stupid ones in my opinion. This is the first time I have heard anybody mention the cornsnake. It's always croc's and venomous. That's why I, for the most part, defend the laws. With the laws we have in place now, it protects us from completely absurd laws like NY just passed. There is no "We have to do something about this" in legislature when a situation arises because something has already been done. At the most "We need to crack down on enforcing these laws" may come up. But they keep us out from underneath the microscope because we were underneath it once already.

Okay, let me turn this around. How do prove that the cornsnake someone has is not one collected from the Pine Barrens? The ability to even own an albino corn (or other red-eyed morph) is more than most other states would permit when the animal in question is native to the state and is either threatened or endangered in the state.
Keep this in mind.

Ed

Actually, the reason is that the corn snake in is an endangered species in New Jersey. It is common practice in states to ban possession of endangered/threatened animals in that state. Some states also ban keeping anything native to that state. New Jersey doesn't ban keeping anything native as long as it's not endangered.