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The third stall of the garage on my new house is where I'm putting my snake room. The stall has no insulation, electric or heat so I'm basically starting from scratch. The stall is 17'x25'.

My plan is to frame out the third stall (over the concrete wall), insulate and run electric. I'm going to build the entire stall as a very nice shop and then put up a wall to make the back half for snakes. If we ever sell the house I'll remove the dividing wall and the full shop should add a lot of equity to the home.

So other than making sure there is 220 what else should I include?

I want this to appeal to both car/boat people as well as wood workers.

Especially interested in hearing from Jungle Habitats, Big Tattoo, Burmboy, etc.

Thanks for any input.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

The third stall of the garage on my new house is where I'm putting my snake room. The stall has no insulation, electric or heat so I'm basically starting from scratch. The stall is 17'x25'.

My plan is to frame out the third stall (over the concrete wall), insulate and run electric. I'm going to build the entire stall as a very nice shop and then put up a wall to make the back half for snakes. If we ever sell the house I'll remove the dividing wall and the full shop should add a lot of equity to the home.

So other than making sure there is 220 what else should I include?

I want this to appeal to both car/boat people as well as wood workers.

Especially interested in hearing from Jungle Habitats, Big Tattoo, Burmboy, etc.

Glad to hear you are making progress chris so heres my input to your question.

for a 17'x25' first think of what you will use the "shop side" for and how much the most .

If it were me heres how i would lay it out ...

First a upright air compressor goes in the corner , plumbed along on wall and over head into the center of the room . on the wall i would add two connections , overhead i would add a retractable air hose and of course a good quaility water filter to keep the moisture out when ya mess with woods and spraying ( cabinet roots lol )

Along one wall instead of running individual receptacles i would run plug mold on a 18" center along the entire wall.this will make it very easy for power needs w/o having drop cords all over the floor. Also add a overhead retractable outlet reel. you will use this the most as you can plug in tools and let it retract keeping the cords off the work and your feet and floor aswell.
Next depending on what work you would do wold be a large shop vacuum plumbed in along one wall with maybe two hookups on it ( i say use a shop vac over a dust system cause you can always use it alone for water etc and doing the wifes car lol .I would also seal the floor with a good epoxy floor paint will look good make it easy to clean any spills up w/o staing the concrete.

then i would add atleast one HVAC vent into each room maybe two if you have a big enought AC/furnace to add on w/out depleteing the houses proper air ( most homes are oversized units to handle a few extra vent placed right. ( you may need to also add a retun vent to for proper circulation ) Just for kicks i would add a motion switch for the lights just so i dont have to remember to cut them off when i leave ( bad for that lol)
so to me for the size you are doing the plugmold on the all , Air compressor and shop vac set up would appeal to all future homeowners.

OH damn nearforgot lighting i would go with a H.O 8 ft 2 tub flourescents ( preferrebly power bulbs ) these are a larger then normal lamp about 2x's the sizeofa normal light and looks like someone heated it up and squeezed it about every 8-10" making it a brigther bulb and they last alot longerthen standard lights both ballasts and bulbs do .

main thing to keep in mind if you wantto add $$$ to the house for resale it needs to be heated w/o that as far as $ value it does nothing for the resale. unheated space doesnt count as SQ footage to your home when trying to get your money back out of it later .

Well i gotta jet alotto do i have to head to florida in the morning and have a bunch of cages to finish up .. ill check back latertonight if i get a chance best of luck Chris .
Alan
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....My Boa Can Kick Your Boas _ss!www.cheapcages.com
Visit the new website while the Jungle gets made over.

>>Along one wall instead of running individual receptacles i would run plug mold on a 18" center along the entire wall.this will make it very easy for power needs w/o having drop cords all over the floor.

This was my plan. It will also allow me to frame the wall out with 2x2's.

But do they make them for 220V?

>>then i would add atleast one HVAC vent into each room maybe two if you have a big enought AC/furnace to add on w/out depleteing the houses proper air

I get a 50% reduction on my KWH charge if I use electric radiant heat. Since this is a great way to heat a snake room I also planned to use it for the shop side.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I like the additions he suggested, esp. the vertical air compressor and shop vac setup.

No, there is no 220 power strip... i had checked into that myself and the thing is each 220 tool is going to pull so many amps that you really cant run more than MAYBE 2 at a time off of one circuit.

However you could wire any 220 tools you have (such as a table saw, radial arm saw, whatever) into a 30 amp 220 plug, running 10 ga wire (depending on the length of course), then you could probably run 3 tools off of. But then also in the future if someone else wants to plug say their radial arm saw with a regular 15/20 amp 220 plug on it they'll either have to rewire the tool or the outlet.

Something new i've seen at home depot is this electrical outlet (110) you can screw onto the side of a stud and it will finish nicely into a wall, however you can use it either as a standard receptacle or pull it out on the 30 or 50 foot extension cord (i dont remember which it is). That's a thought. Then you won't have any reels hanging from the ceiling.

I would also run a subpanel over to that area if it is possible, just so you can have instant control over everything right there.
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

>>No, there is no 220 power strip...

Thanks...

>>Something new i've seen at home depot is this electrical outlet (110) you can screw onto the side of a stud and it will finish nicely into a wall, however you can use it either as a standard receptacle or pull it out on the 30 or 50 foot extension cord (i dont remember which it is). That's a thought. Then you won't have any reels hanging from the ceiling.

I'll look into that. I'm trying to avoid receptacles if at all possible as I really don't have any other reason to build a wall that thick. But they do sound like a slick setup if I end up having to build a full wall anyways.

I'm planning on framing the wall out with 2x2's. I assume they don't make receptacles for that depth?

>>I would also run a subpanel over to that area if it is possible, just so you can have instant control over everything right there.

Absolutely already planned that.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I'm planning on framing the wall out with 2x2's. I assume they don't make receptacles for that depth?
You can get a shallow box... it will just barely fit in a 2" depth i think (plus the 5/8" thick drywall it will go through). i think. you may also want to look at whats called an "old work" box - it is regular depth but its made for pre-existing drywall... you cut a hole then there are screws that pull a piece pressed on the back of the drywall to hold it in... this way the depth of the box will be the space plus the 5/8" drywall (if thats the thickness you choose). You may also want to look into codes... I know in some places building code wont support a 2x2 framed wall.

you are going to get a green 2x4 and just split it for the bottom piece... right? i cant think of what this is called at the moment... but especially in a garage being on a concrete floor the moisture can come through the concrete and rot out that wood.

but also - aren't you going to be finishing off one existing wall? this should be a 2x4 wall, and there it would be easy to place a regular recept.
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

Chris is gonna use the 2x2 simply as "furring" strips against the concrete wall to have something to attach drywall to, rather than putting drywall right up to the cinderblock.
The bottom "plate" is what you're referreing to as the base of a framed wall. Yes, treated lumber is highly recommended since moisture can wick up into it and rot normal wood out, plus it just helps to keep out the creepy crawlies.
As far a ripping a 2x4 in half, the chemical treatment only penetrates the wood for about 1/2 of an inch, so having the "ripped" face exposed to anything (floor or exposed to the air) will defeat the purpose of buying it in the first place.
Im looking at buying a new house and Im keeping an eye out for perfect herps room setups! I'll post pics/advice/experiences/lessons learned if it ever happens.
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Tom
TCJ Herps
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

>>Chris is gonna use the 2x2 simply as "furring" strips against the concrete wall...

I'm not going to attach the 2x2's directly to the wall, at least based on my current plans. I'm going to frame a wall that sits just a bit away from the poured concrete wall. If I attached the 2x2's directly the wall would be very wavy as it's not the best pour job I've seen. Also, the small air space will serve me well.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Chris, the air space will serve you well. I referenced some of my manuals from my apprenticeship, and they concur. Have you considered trying metal studs? I know from my experience with 2"x2"s they tend to be warped or twisted. They also tend to split when your attaching them to each other, I've always had to pre-drill to avoid this. Just out of curiosity why 2"x2"s vs. 2"x4"s. My thoughts are go with 2"x4"s, this eases eletrical needs. Furthurmore, for your application i would use metal 2"x4" studs, easy knock outs for electrical runs, standard boxe sizes. Corrosion resistant, so you have cost savings vs. the green treated wood. Without fully understanding the choices your thinking about going with its hard to give alternatives. You may have a perfectly viable reason for your choices that i have not considered. Clint

>>Chris, the air space will serve you well. I referenced some of my manuals from my apprenticeship, and they concur.

Thanks, Clint, I really appreciate the input. How much of an air space do they recommend? One of these days I need to get in touch with you off board and talk orchids. I'm planning on building a couple of rolling plant terrariums for my fiances ever growing collection.

>>Have you considered trying metal studs?

Yes, especially since my garage ceiling is over 8' tall. With standard lumber it means a double sill (or sole) plate or buying overlength studs. I believe the metal studs will save me money in the long run. It also saves me from having to rent, borrow or buy a nail gun. I really don't want to swing a hammer for the 100 ft. of garage wall that needs framed out for electric. My back and shoulder just aren't up to it after moving in. As much as I'd love to run out and buy a compressor/nail gun combo I'd really prefer to be wired for 220 before I make that decision.

>>I know from my experience with 2"x2"s they tend to be warped or twisted. They also tend to split when your attaching them to each other, I've always had to pre-drill to avoid this.

That's my biggest concern. I've yet to see a decent 2x2 in this town.

>>Just out of curiosity why 2"x2"s vs. 2"x4"s.

For the type of heating I plan I only need 1" styrene insulation board with the foil face. Then I need a 1/2" air space in front of that, therby only requiring a total of 1.5". My thought was to try to take away as little floor space as possible. That's just my extreme anal retentive side coming out. Honestly it's a bigger issue over on the double stall side where the garage is just a bit narrow. I can always switch to something else over there, I'm sure my electrician will appreciate it.

At any rate, if you could double check the recommended air space it would be much appreciated.

And I guess I should read up on how to frame a door with metal studs, although my temporary (snake room) wall could still be lumber, I suppose.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

As you may recall the garage is below grade, at least mostly. I was walking along the backside of the house yesterday and noticed that only the living portion of the back foundation wall was coated with tar. The back wall of the garage was not.

It appears the inside of the garage was coated with that white, chalky paint type stuff that is designed to act as a vapor barrier of sorts. At least I believe so.

Do I need to make sure that a concrete sealing product was used or will an air space appease those concerns?

Maybe you should just e-mail me by clicking on my blue highlighted name and I can send you pictures, etc.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

>>>>Chris, the air space will serve you well. I referenced some of my manuals from my apprenticeship, and they concur.
>>
>>Thanks, Clint, I really appreciate the input. How much of an air space do they recommend? One of these days I need to get in touch with you off board and talk orchids. I'm planning on building a couple of rolling plant terrariums for my fiances ever growing collection.
>>
>>>>Have you considered trying metal studs?
>>
>>Yes, especially since my garage ceiling is over 8' tall. With standard lumber it means a double sill (or sole) plate or buying overlength studs. I believe the metal studs will save me money in the long run. It also saves me from having to rent, borrow or buy a nail gun. I really don't want to swing a hammer for the 100 ft. of garage wall that needs framed out for electric. My back and shoulder just aren't up to it after moving in. As much as I'd love to run out and buy a compressor/nail gun combo I'd really prefer to be wired for 220 before I make that decision.
>>
>>>>I know from my experience with 2"x2"s they tend to be warped or twisted. They also tend to split when your attaching them to each other, I've always had to pre-drill to avoid this.
>>
>>That's my biggest concern. I've yet to see a decent 2x2 in this town.
>>
>>>>Just out of curiosity why 2"x2"s vs. 2"x4"s.
>>
>>For the type of heating I plan I only need 1" styrene insulation board with the foil face. Then I need a 1/2" air space in front of that, therby only requiring a total of 1.5". My thought was to try to take away as little floor space as possible. That's just my extreme anal retentive side coming out. Honestly it's a bigger issue over on the double stall side where the garage is just a bit narrow. I can always switch to something else over there, I'm sure my electrician will appreciate it.
>>
>>At any rate, if you could double check the recommended air space it would be much appreciated.
>>
Chris, Its a 1" airspace. I myself have never worked with metal studs, but i have talked to carpenters who have. The screws are self tapping. Most of the carpenters say there is a small learning curve. I think furring out the concrete walls is the right way to go. A framed in utility room, such as what you are planning will definately add equity. Us guys like our little caves to work in. Congrats on your new home. Clint

>>And I guess I should read up on how to frame a door with metal studs, although my temporary (snake room) wall could still be lumber, I suppose.
>>-----
>>Current snakes:
>>
>>0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)
>>
>>3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)
>>
>>2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)
>>
>>3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

>>I think furring out the concrete walls is the right way to go.

But then I lose the air space. Or are you saying the building a framed wall 1" of the concrete wall is a type of furring?

I always though of furring as thin strips attached directly to ceiling, walls, or floors.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

>>>>I think furring out the concrete walls is the right way to go.
>>
>>But then I lose the air space. Or are you saying the building a framed wall 1" of the concrete wall is a type of furring?
>>
I suppose its how you look at it. I know exactly what you mean. Sill plate-sole plate. You plan on framing a wall out of a given material 1" away from pre-existing concrete wall, in order to provide a 1" air space between said walls. Clint
>>I always though of furring as thin strips attached directly to ceiling, walls, or floors.
>>-----
>>Current snakes:
>>
>>0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)
>>
>>3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)
>>
>>2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)
>>
>>3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

>>I'm planning on framing the wall out with 2x2's. I assume they don't make receptacles for that depth?
>>You can get a shallow box... it will just barely fit in a 2" depth i think (plus the 5/8" thick drywall it will go through). i think. you may also want to look at whats called an "old work" box - it is regular depth but its made for pre-existing drywall... you cut a hole then there are screws that pull a piece pressed on the back of the drywall to hold it in... this way the depth of the box will be the space plus the 5/8" drywall (if thats the thickness you choose).

I'll ask my electrician about those suggestions.

You may also want to look into codes... I know in some places building code wont support a 2x2 framed wall.

There are no codes on garages unless you are converting it into livable space. I only have to have the electric inspected.

>>
>>you are going to get a green 2x4 and just split it for the bottom piece... right? i cant think of what this is called at the moment...

Are you trying to think of the term for the bottom plate? It's called a sole plate. And yes, PT is the way to go.

>>but also - aren't you going to be finishing off one existing wall? this should be a 2x4 wall, and there it would be easy to place a regular recept.

I'm finishing off three poured concrete walls and then building a temparary wall between two of those to form the snake room. The temporary wall will be 2x4, possibly even 2x6.

But to your point, local contractors are advising me to just frame out the existing walls with 2x2's. I'm still undecided.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I had heard Sill plate, but I can also see Sole making as much sense.

Symantics, humph
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Tom
TCJ Herps
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

I've always called it a sill plate. But when I googled a website on framing a rough opening for a door they called it a sole plate. I assumed I had it wrong.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I guess I missed something from your initial post - i was thinking you were going up against a bare studded wall. But yeah, i'd tend to agree finishing off with 2x2's.

And the point guttersnacks made - i didn't realize that. I'm still learning ... i'd say framing is one of the last things i have yet to learn in detail.

Good luck.
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

All sounds good Alan!!, but Chris, don't forget, NEC/NFPA requires that if you put a heat run out there, you also have to add a smoke detector. It would be a shame to do all that work and then have the inspector fail the house when you go to sell it!! Aside from that, it would be nice to have the piece of mind of having your reps. safe!!

Just my $ .02!!

Good luck, It sounds cool!!

Scott Dixon

electric radiant heat?

what is this?

Where I live there are kilowatt-hour price reductions (P) if you use radiant heat sources. These can be water lines run in the concrete slab and/or underneath subfloors. There are also heat cables (just like used for reptiles) that can be run underneath tiles. I'm not sure if these cables get the kilowatt reduction or not.

In my case I hope to use large radiant heat panels from Pro Products to heat my room. They will be mounted on the ceiling of my herp room and shop. We just moved here so it's not clear to me if these will get the KWH price reduction or not. I may have to use a similar ceiling mounted heater from my energy supplier.

They are very efficient ways to heat homes. Some of the energy bills people have out here are shockingly low, even with our nasty winters.

>>electric radiant heat?
>>
>>what is this?
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Im not familiar with the product, but with a heating element mounted to the ceiling, I'd certainly look into some kind of a small fan (not a ceiling fan for space reasons) that could be mounted to promote good air circulation. I've been in homes before that are heated by gas, and the temperatures at the ceiling are 20 degrees higher than at head level. It'll become a more efficient heating process if you can get just the slightest amount of air movement
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Tom
TCJ Herps
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

Hi Tom,

That's only for convective heaters. These produce radiant heat so you can have the most powerful fan in the world and it will have no effect. There does end up being a very small convective current produced but nothing like what you see with forced air heaters.

Well I was going to reply to another post of yours in this thread but I'm being told to give up the computer. Stay tuned until tomorrow.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)