Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was reading a thread below about Yellow Belly markers and also read about Pied markers. Seems like a lot of unsure answers and ideas and photos.

OK, could someone put up 2 photos of the differences between yellow Belly markers and (het) pied markers. Like a side by side comp.? It would make it easier this way, one person with the 2 different snakes with a slight description telling what the differences are.

Thank you VERY much... John
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0.1 Albino
1.0 Pastel
1.0 (F1)Banded Ball
1.1 100% Het Piebald
1.1 100% Het Butterscotch Ghost
1.1 100% Het Yellow Ghost
1.18.1 Normal Balls

PIED markers: PIEDs have been known to have a line on each of the belly scales, Now don't confuse the fact that some of them hav it. Because thier are just as many 100% hets that don't have the 2 lines that prove to be 100% het pieds. This is not a FULL guarantee that the double lines are definate HETs, I personally have noticed that most of my 100% hets have these markers. However NOT all 100% hets will have them.

Yellow bellies markers: This is just my opinion on the yellow belly markers. But from what I have seen yellow bellies tend to have a white belly with orange/yellow blushing back and forth across the belly and then the side pattern is speckled with several different colors of orange, brown and yellow. They also have a increased amount of blushing running up the sides towards the spine. I will take a few pictures of them side by side. I will post them in the next post Thanks David
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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

Here is the photo. the pied is on the right and the yellow belly is on the left.

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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

Het pied on top and yellow belly on bottom.

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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

>>Het pied on top and yellow belly on bottom.
>>
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>>1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
>>1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
>>0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
>>3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
>>0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
>>1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
>>2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
>>3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
>>0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
>>2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
>>0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
>>1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
>>2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
>>25 Normal adult females
>>60 04 females
>>15 normal mixed 03's
>>20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's
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Tosha

2.5.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
0.1.0 Siberian Husky (Kita)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
5.4.2 Fish (1,2,3,4...)
0.0.1 Frog rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.2 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

Believe me it was like 3-4 takes...LOL...it wasn't easy..Thanks DAVID
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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

Thank you for all your effort. I am feeling a lot better about what to look for. I was always so lost on this, now i have a good idea on what to look for.

I have a few snakes that i am not sure on and now can compair to your images. At least i have some fun projects to go with. Thank you... John
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0.1 Albino
1.0 Pastel
1.0 (F1)Banded Ball
1.1 100% Het Piebald
1.1 100% Het Butterscotch Ghost
1.1 100% Het Yellow Ghost
1.18.1 Normal Balls

Thanks, Just Remember NOT ALL 100% het pieds will have the markers. MINE is a TRUE 100% het for pied from Vin Russo. I also have one from someone else that doesn't have the double lines. In my opinion the double line theory is only good on animals that come from breeding hets to normals or hets to hets, but it is still not full proof. I will knoe more about the double line theory when I breed a PIED male back to some imported females that have the same type of double lines as the 100% het pied I have. They I will post the results of them breedings. Thanks David
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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

Is that snake a known het, or a suspected het? I just asked because some have stated that the het pied marker entails uniform striping which stays outside of the 3 clear belly scales. I'm just hearing some conflicting info and wanted to clarify. Thanks and good luck proving out that yb, I'm crossing my fingers for ya.

Will

The snake pictured is a 100% het from Vin Russo and I have the paperworkto prove it. The Yellow belly is an unproven line as far as I know but it has been verified as a Yellow belly by several other breeders, i just have to breed it and prove it. 100% het Pied on top and Yellow belly on Bottom. Thanks DAVID

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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

They vary in quality from snake to snake and also along the belly of the same snake. Hard to tell but I think this pic of the pied het might be a little farther up the belly than optimal with the best marker further toward the vent. Mainly notice how thick and solid the markers are and that they are all the way out there 3 scales wide a lot of the time. The normals with striped edge bellies probably don't ever go out all three scales wide at all and aren’t nearly as thick and some of the pied line ones do stay out consistently wide and straight.

The more I think about it that "yb" post a while back is pretty solid in the pied marker camp even though it waves back and forth a lot like this one. I'd breed it to a pied line just in case.