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ND Press: House bans ownership of poisonous snakes

Jan 27, 2005 08:09 AM

GRAND FORKS HERALD (N Dakota) 27 January 05 House bans ownership of poisonous snakes
Bismarck (AP): North Dakota's House has agreed to ban private ownership of poisonous snakes, responding to an incident in which two Bismarck men ordered deadly reptiles over the Internet and then showed them off.
Rep. Dwight Wrangham, R-Bismarck, said the legislation permits someone to keep a poisonous snake only if he or she has a permit from the state veterinarian, intends to use the reptile for education, and has the ability to handle and care for it.
Last July, police found four deadly snakes in a Bismarck apartment. Andrew Greff and Doug Feist were charged with misdemeanor reckless endangerment.
The men told authorities they felt safe with the snakes because they lived near a hospital, where they could go if they were bitten.
Representatives chuckled as Wrangham described the reasons for the bill, which was approved 88-0 on Wednesday. It now goes to the Senate for additional review.
The bill is HB1326.
http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/10744322.htm

BUCKS COUNTY COURIER TIMES (Levittown, Pennsylvania) 26 January 05 N.D. to Ban Ownership of Poisonous Snakes
Bismark, N.D. (AP): North Dakota's House has agreed to ban private ownership of poisonous snakes, responding to an incident in which two Bismarck men ordered deadly reptiles over the Internet and then showed them off.
Rep. Dwight Wrangham, R-Bismarck, said the legislation permits someone to keep a poisonous snake only if he or she has a permit from the state veterinarian, intends to use the reptile for education, and has the ability to handle and care for it.
Last July, police found four deadly snakes in a Bismarck apartment. Andrew Greff and Doug Feist were charged with misdemeanor reckless endangerment.
The men told authorities they felt safe with the snakes because they lived near a hospital, where they could go if they were bitten.
Representatives chuckled as Wrangham described the reasons for the bill, which was approved 88-0 on Wednesday. It now goes to the Senate for additional review.
"These individuals had taken these snakes to at least one school, under the false premise of getting them identified," Wrangham said. "They knew what they were. They just took them there so they had an excuse to show people what they had."
After the snake incident, Greff lost his left arm in a pipe bomb explosion.
The bill is HB1326.
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/84-01262005-439318.html

.... and just because you've already read this far ...

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER (Washington) 26 January 05 Proposed bill would prohibit owning dangerous wild animals (Kelly Kearsley)
Olympia, Washington (AP): Douglas Taylor knew he loved snakes from the first time he saw one at the tender age of 8. Now 40, the Snohomish County firefighter has turned his passion for the creatures into a lucrative hobby.
A proposed bill may put the brakes on his snake-breeding business.
The legislation would prohibit Washington residents from owning dangerous wild animals such as certain snakes, large cats, wolves, bears, monkeys, primates and crocodiles.
Taylor testified Wednesday against the bill at a public hearing hosted by the House Judiciary Committee, saying he'd lose as much as $15,000 a year because some of the snakes he owns and sells would be banned.
"There's been no epidemic of death or destruction by reptiles," he said.
Under the proposed law, local animal control authorities would be able to confiscate dangerous wild animals from people owning them illegally and relocate the creatures to zoos or wildlife sanctuaries.
The animals might be euthanized as a last resort.
Current owners could keep their animals until 2010. At that point, they would need permission from animal control officials to own the pets.
The intent of the bill is to protect the public from dangerous animals and protect the animals from possibly inadequate care from private owners, said Nicole Paquette, a lawyer for the Animal Protection Institute.
The California-based organization, which has championed similar legislation in other states, has been trying to pass the law in Washington for the past five years.
"Wild animals are inherently dangerous," she said. "And the private sector can't provide the care and treatment that they need."
The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife doesn't track the number of people injured or killed by privately owned wild animals.
Mike Wyche, the general curator of Cat Tales, a zoological park outside of Spokane, told committee members that Cat Tales receives hundreds of calls from people who own exotic animals or want them.
Past inquiries have included "Where can I buy a tiger?" and "My cougar needs a home. I'm getting married and it doesn't like my girlfriend," according to a log of phone calls Wyche presented the lawmakers.
"It's an ego trip to own these animals, and it's sheer greed that drives people to breed them," he said.
But for Jeanne Hall, president of the Phoenix Exotics Wildlife Association, owning the animals is more of a rescue mission than an ego boost.
"The drive for most private owners is to simply care for animals that need to be rescued," said Hall, who owns exotic cats.
Private owners, she said, many times take in injured or older animals that may not be eligible for spaces in zoos or wildlife sanctuaries. Owners would also lose the money they've invested in housing the animals, she said.
And then there's just the pure joy of owning a gigantic snake.
H. Phil Rodenberg reminded the lawmakers of this with a photograph of him and some school children playing with his albino Burmese python name Weezer.
"Really, you've never met a sweeter snake," he told the committee.
A public hearing on a companion bill was scheduled Thursday before a Senate committee.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=WA XGR Dangerous Animals

Replies (15)

rearfang Jan 27, 2005 03:19 PM

As to the ND thing. Since you can eat snakes-they are not poisonous. One could have a certain amount of fun with the wording if they phrase it that way....

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

eunectes4 Jan 27, 2005 03:21 PM

"you've never met a sweeter snake"...I guess there is no worries...looks like we got this one under control. How can there be a ban on snakes when this guy has such a sweet albino burmese that loves to play with school children. But at least its super fun to watch the dominos fall.

rearfang Jan 27, 2005 04:30 PM

That will depend upon whether they want to listen or are just promting their prejudice.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

taphillip Jan 28, 2005 11:21 AM

Rep. Dwight Wrangham, R-Bismarck, said the legislation permits someone to keep a poisonous snake only if he or she has a permit from the state veterinarian, intends to use the reptile for education, and has the ability to handle and care for it.

Amazing that only the people on these forums are opposed to intelligent regulation instead of an all out ban!
For those that can't interpret the statement above, it says...
responsible, capable people who would like to abide by the law (not be a criminal) ARE allowed to keep them with a permit, which is easy enough to get.....
Crazy!
-----
It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens
Rapid City, SD.

www.reptilegardens.com

jont52 Jan 28, 2005 11:27 AM

Rep. Dwight Wrangham, R-Bismarck, said the legislation permits someone to keep a poisonous snake only if he or she has a permit from the state veterinarian, intends to use the reptile for education, and has the ability to handle and care for it

It doesn't mention the stipulations that are going to be used to recieve a permit. If this legislation passes without letting people know the exact motions they need to take to obtain a permit then it most likely will constitute a ban. The legislation needs to be specific before it is signed to prevent law makers from making the legislation to strict.

Jon

eunectes4 Jan 28, 2005 12:36 PM

I am not willing to support legislation that isnt specific. I would be more than happy to support a permit system. I will always be happy to support that. But from reading that article I saw some possibility and a vague statement but felt it was only said to calm the waters and not an actual ammendment to the bill. If in fact there is a legitimate permit system involved I would like to hear more about that. I also will still always have a problem with the support in our favor being statements from people about their sweet burmese pythons. It makes the hobbiest look less intelligent and makes the law makers appear to be in good control of the well being of the public...when in fact this is somewhat misleading.

taphillip Jan 28, 2005 01:45 PM

I figured everyone had seen these already, It was discussed a month or so earlier quite extensively.

these are the proposed regs in ND Reply

1. Describe and demonstrate to the Non-Traditional Livestock Council (NTL) the ability of handlers to maintain and control the animals safely. Relate details to the NTL of the experience of handlers with venomous species.
2. Provide details to the NTL including photographs of housing, feeding and handling techniques.
3. Maintain quality caging that is individually locked, with all cages containing venomous reptiles housed in a locked room.
4. Identify each individual animal with a method which readily distinguishes one animal from another, such as microchips. Photographs may be used for species that show a variance in color patterns.
5. Provide details to the NTL of a safety plan which takes into account how a potential emergency, including a bite, will be dealt with so as to avoid loss of life or serious injury. Inform local EMS, fire department and law enforcement of the presence of venomous reptiles in case of an emergency situation.
6. Contact a local hospital and show proof that they have been made aware of the venomous animals that will be in your care and that you have provided them with appropriate information that alerts them as to their role should a bite occur. Provide proof that appropriate antivenins and other emergency drugs are readily available should they be needed. Annually, provide proof that these drugs are being kept properly and up-to-date.
7. Provide a list of species being considered for accession and inform the office of the State Veterinarian and the local hospital mentioned in #6 of any new species that are acquired.
8. Importation- all venomous reptiles require a valid health certificate and an importation permit to enter North Dakota. The North Dakota State Veterinarian’s office must be called for a permit number that is to be written on the health certificate.
9. Penalties- due to the potentially dangerous situation that is created with the presence of venomous reptiles, any violation of any of these conditions may result in disciplinary action including, but not limited to:
a. confiscation and/or destroying all venomous reptiles in the collection
b. a fine of up to $5000.00 for each violation
-----
It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens
Rapid City, SD.

www.reptilegardens.com

jont52 Jan 28, 2005 02:15 PM

The specifics just need a little revision; otherwise it looks like a good system. I don't see it necessary to have a valid health certificate for each animal. That is becomming a little to restrictive because it is no longer touching on public safety. Some animals are being taken in for rehabilitation purposes or just are not in good health. That is how it works in this trade; sick animals are ofter cheaper. That is a clause to make some people who can't afford the certificates to get out of the hobby in my opinion. Especially because in my opinion vets will often charge more for a exotic let alone venomous exotics. Maybe if the state put pricing regulation on the check-ups and exam equivalent to non-exotics.
There are probably a few other quams I have with the legislation, but this is my major one.

Just my opinion
Jon

eunectes4 Jan 28, 2005 02:33 PM

Thank you and sorry I missed this a month ago. While it may not be obviouse...I do miss things on the forums and do not always get to read everything in each forum I am active in. I do appreciate you spelling out the terms though. Looks like a good decision.

Matt Harris Jan 28, 2005 07:44 PM

Theres no reason they shouldn't be. Just because thats 'how the trade works' doesn't mean it is acceptable. Half the problem with the hot herp hobby is that there is no professionalism and low standards.

Matt

jont52 Jan 29, 2005 07:06 AM

I bet every person would say that about their profession. "I wish everything was top quality." It doesn't work. The fact of the matter with business is that every different dealer will provide a different quality of service. Just because we deal with exotic animals doesn't make this any different. There will always be a continuum with extremes at amazing service and quality to garbage. The outliers will reside at the extremes and pull down the quality of any trade while the majority will be around the center. It is how capitalism functions and we are not exempt from the rule.
Matt, I know you have quality animals; however, I would not have if I hadn't had to weed through the garbage saleman. With all due respect, those are the people that enable you to stay in business. People will come and go for a cheaper price elsewhere, but in the end they will come back for the quality and service provided.

Just my 2 cents on capitalism.

Jon

Matt Harris Jan 29, 2005 06:25 PM

n/m.

phobos Jan 28, 2005 03:37 PM

Terry...

Where have these guys been...you posted this a while ago and was hashed out pretty good.

You are also right; most everyone has been against ANY restrictions, when it has been clear to me for some time that Regulations were required since we (Hot Herp Hobbiest) were not going to fix it ourselves.

Al
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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

phobos Jan 28, 2005 05:32 AM

These @#$%!! are the ones working on Banning "Dangerous Animals" Now that we've identified the threat we should come up with a counter attack plan.

The excerpt is from on of the sub-articles in this post.

The intent of the bill is to protect the public from dangerous animals and protect the animals from possibly inadequate care from private owners,

said Nicole Paquette, a lawyer for the Animal Protection Institute.
The California-based organization, which has championed similar legislation in other states, has been trying to pass the law in Washington for the past five years.

"Wild animals are inherently dangerous," she said. "And the private sector can't provide the care and treatment that they need."

-----
Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

jont52 Jan 28, 2005 07:54 AM

I emailed all the North Dakota Senators as an outsider who wanted to help and I recieved an letter back from one Senator so far. Because he is actually reading the mail and responding may show that he is willing to work with you guys. His name and address are as follows:
Senator Tim Mathern
429 16th Ave. South
Fargo ND 58103
email:tmathern@state.nd.us

Maybe he would be able to help launch a counter bill. I will keep posted if he continues to respond, but letter writing to the Senate may help when the Bill hits their floor.

Jon

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