Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am only 16 but when i egt my own place ina few years i was thinking of investing in a pair of albino balls 2 females and a male nothing big to make a good profit....You think they will ever drop below a grand because i want to get at least 10k a year of the babies they make and not have them keep dropping...thanks
Jake

I just can't help myself. I usually don't respond to these questions but here's the scoop. In time every individual morph (not counting the designers) will make it to pet grade prices. It may take 20 more years for it to happen but it will happen. Now let's look at albino's, people have been saying for many years that they will bottom out, they haven't. If you are looking at turning a 10k a year profit you will need to buy more than a couple het females and one albino male. If you have 4 het females to start with lets say on average 2 of the 4 breed each year (alternating each female to give them a year off). You will get on average 4-6 eggs from each female and of those 50% will be albinos. So that's 8-12 eggs and 4-6 albino's a year. even at 2k each that's 8-12k a year if you don't loose any eggs and if the females bred successfully. So now let's say by the time your females get to breeding size in 2.5 yrs the price does drop to 1k that's 4-6k worth of babies not counting the food, electric, and housing costs which drops your profit down to 3-5k. Investment wise you will need to buy more to turn a decent profit, however if you love the snakes and will enjoy hatching out a few albino babies and have them pay for themselves give it a try, it's hella fun. Just my 2 cents. Josh
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2.0 het pied
1.1 het albino
1.0 het citrus ghost
0.9 normal
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

It costs you $1000 a year to heat, house and feed a dozen odd ball pythons?! Glad I don't live near you. That's crazy talk.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

let's see small rat = 1.50, med rat= 2.00, large rat 3.00... so let's say you are feeding 12 adults one medium rat every 7 days at 2.00 each that's $1251.42 a year. now providing you aren't breeding your own rats which with that small a collection you probably won't that estimate is fairly accurate i believe. now if you have a source where you can pick the size of rats/mice by hand for cheaper let me know, i'll buy from them. what i was trying to point out is that buying 1 male albino and a couple het females is not a great way to turn a large profit there are other factors to look at besides buying the snakes and making babies.
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2.0 het pied
1.1 het albino
1.0 het citrus ghost
0.9 normal
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

That sounds about right, I think I estimated about $100 per snake per year in just food (one $2 meal x 52 weeks). Of course there may be fasts and meals refused. But then you calculate in substrate, heat, etc. and you're back to about $100 per snake. A colony of 12 is easily $1000/yr. If you are lucky enough to find arat breeder nearby you can probably cut about $2-3 hundred off the cost of food.
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Tosha

3.5.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
0.1.0 Siberian Husky (Kita)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
5.4.2 Fish (1,2,3,4...)
0.0.1 Frog rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.2 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

You are getting adult females to eat a rat EVERY week for 12 months straight???? That's awesome. Because mine are gravid for 2 months (ovulate, shed, lay eggs = 7-8 weeks) so that's 8 feedinds that are missing. But its not like they stop eating the day they ovulate. They stop feeding sometimes up to a month before ovulation occurs. Also, adult females do a fast for periods at a time during the year. My biggest females (3500g plus) probably eat about fifteen $2 rats in a 8-10 week span in November/December and right after egg-laying, but the rest of the year no way in heck are they eating once per week. The yearlings and babies and sub adults are. For sure. But proven breeder females put the weight back on within a month to month-and-a-half. I would say that there's a 6-7 month span where they eat maybe 3-5 rats (large-ish ones). So I wo0uld say that it takes under $60 to feed each female per year. And obviously less for a male. And his is BUYING rodents.

Just my estimation. I think this is a good discussion if cooler heads prevail. I record every feeding on my PDA, and for my 15 biggest females, I would say that each one takes down less than 30 medium rats per year. It would be interesting to see what everyone else has. Without the flames of course.

Very interesting topic... I took a look at my five proven breeder females feeding records for last year and on average they each ate 23.4 times. All these feeding were on medium to large rats, and all but one put on significant weight since last breeding season. The one only put on about 200 grams (this is on top of recouping the weight lost after laying eggs), but there was another that put on over 1000 grams. I also looked at 15 other, 10 of which are breeding size this year the other are around 600 - 1000 grams. On average they took 33.73 feedings. A number of these feedings were mice and all have put on good weight. A number of the ones that reached breeding size this year put on 1000 grams.

For highs and lows the most times fed was 46 mostly mice, the lowest was 20 all rats.

All and all last year I spent a little over 2 grand and that fed around 70 snakes of all ages in my collection and around 270 babies that I sold. Most all of both are ball pythons. Granted some of the babies were only fed once or twice before being sold (and yes the person buying them knew exactly how many times) but many were fed 5 times.

George Knaack
GLK HERP

And the REALEST part about them? They weren't a GUESS! They were ACTUAL numbers. That's the key. Its easy to postulate what you think stuff might cost, but just ask someone who actually does it. They'll most likely have concrete numbers. That's what I'd base it on.

Good discussion. I would say if you can get a decent price on quality rats, start with a good breeding stock of BP's, that even with normals, you could still make money. Add a nice Pastel or another co-dom, and you're laughing.

Good stuff guys!

Since I have only one BP (the first I have ever kept) and mostly colubrids, the feeding data is quite interesting.

But what about the cost of selling? Advertising, shipping supplies, going to shows, etc, adds a lot of cost (not to mention time and effort) to anybody's breeding project, unless they are selling everything wholesale to one dealer.

Kathy, that is a very good point. Not to mention labor cost and space overhead. If we were to look at hiring people to build the business up, what labor rate should be paid along with benefits? How much time does it take to care for one animal? What is your space charges assuming you move up to a facility that is not part of your attic or basement?

The cost to raise any herps is dependent on many factors such as inventory turnaround time (from hatch to delivery), cost of time spent on care, average reproductive rate by female a factor associated with a year usually a number between 1-2 for an adult female greater if a newly acquired hatchling. All these factors including possible licensing, legal, web design and insurance fees add up and differentiate the significant pricing difference between hobby breeders and full-time professional breeders.

Sorry my education is leaking out....The fact remains that many individual breeders forget to appreciate all the variables when determining their costs and pricing of their animals. Also, the long-term rates of return on the animals. Of course, that is a completely separate topic which I spent WAY TOO much time analyzing...

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Support your local herp society
www.chicagoherp.org

it costs me about $15 a week for food and bedding for my rat/mice colonies.

They eat year round.

thats almost $800 before heating costs.

TomChambers

Funny thing is...
By the time I am in a position (financially) to be able to afford an albino in a few years, their prices will probably drop down to a cheaper level that I could have afforded now!
I don't know; there is such a high demand for albinos, and lots of people like to hold onto them, so maybe their price will never get too low.
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2.1 Ball pythons
1.0 Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1 albino Cranwell's horned frog
1.0 bearded dragon
1.0 Tiger salamander
1.1 breeding Clawed frogs
1.0 black kittycat
3.1 Oscar cichlids
0.1 Paint horse mare

i have 5.14 various balls including ghost, pastels, het albino, het pied, and axanthic. most are adults or close. all but 3 wc females feed regularly when not in breeding mode. i also have a a albino rosy boa project of 2.5 adults and a dozen other various pets/projects. i have a local breeder that sells mice for .20 each and rats for $1 for jumbos to .50 for weaned. i spend an average $20 each week on feeders. this takes in to consideration the times that they are cooling off or breeding throughout the year. this is only part of the cost of raising these wonderful creatures. the electric bill has gone up at least $50 a month and all the material for housing, ibuild my own, not to mention the time it takes. if you are doing this just to make money it might not be worth the trouble. if you love snakes as i do then part of the reward is the job itself. as far as selling them, i love to go to shows. it costs more overall but its fun. hopefully we are going to have a good year. 5 gravid balls and a gravid argentine rainbow sofar. i think the ones that make money really love what they are doing. i hope you will to. this is a good topic and so far been a civil and pleasant discussion. thanks, tim/bytheshore reptiles