Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Are rat snakes (I'm thinking specifically of leucistics) naturally "bug eyed", or is this a genetic defect that I should be careful to avoid if I'm buying a breeder?
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>>Are rat snakes (I'm thinking specifically of leucistics) naturally "bug eyed", or is this a genetic defect that I should be careful to avoid if I'm buying a breeder?

You might get better help in the regular ratsnake forum...but the people here might be able to help where I can't. I have heard of Bug-eyed problems with Leucistics but I am not sure if it is genetically linked or naturally random...however I am sure it will be easy to find a non bug-eyed one from a breeder, ask for pictures or even see the snake before purchasing or ask around about people's expirience with other breeders' animals

my friend purchased a luecistic texas rat snake from SMR this past summer and it was not bug eyed in the least very normal eyes for sure and I have not noticed many breeders that have the bug-eyed "problems" and I hope if you are looking to buy that you find one that you like great little snakes they are
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Picture I took of my friend's Leucy Rat, quite an attitude but she never bit me, just a poser lol

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~~~Amy~~~
~my zoo~
corns
1.0 caramel/amber het butter motley-Phoenix 1.0 sunglow motley-Eli 0.1 charcoal-Siva 0.1 caramel het butter-Kilowea 0.1 butter 50% het motley-Mango 0.1 ghost-Pandora 1.0 hypo motley-Vishnu
leopard geckos
0.1 hypo tang-Ms. Cleo 0.1 normal-Valentine
others
1.1 dauchshunds 1.0 cat 2.15 fancy mice(and way too many babies to count LOL)

My Photos
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>> My Website Siva*s Serpents

n/p
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2.1 Corn snakes Snake Plissken, Jack Skellington & Abby
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
1.3 leos, Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo (Indy)
0.1 Pacman frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
1.1.4 firebelly newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John, Helmut Newton & Thandie Newton
1.1 cats Gus & Mena

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2.1 Corn snakes Snake Plissken, Jack Skellington & Abby
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
1.3 leos, Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo (Indy)
0.1 Pacman frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
1.1.4 firebelly newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John, Helmut Newton & Thandie Newton
1.1 cats Gus & Mena

Bug-eyes is a not-uncommon genetic trait found in leucistic texas rats. I have heard of the bug-eye trait in other snakes, but it seems that it MAY actually be carried on the same gene that causes the leucistic trait. That is not to say that all leucistics will be bug-eyed...not at all. But the two traits seem to be found together, particularly in texas rats.

That said: I have a bug-eyed leucistic texas rat that a breeder friend GAVE me. He figured he couldn't get much out of it, and did not want the reputation of selling bug-eyes. I have had the snake for over two years now and he's a great snake (he had the texas "attitude" at first, now he handles great). The point is...They can and do make good pets. If you don't mind the look, you should be able to pick them up cheap. Actually, lots of people have looked at my snakes and commented, "cool eyes on that one!" You should not think of getting one as part of a breeding project, however, as they are generally unwanted animals. Any other questions on this particular oddity? One of my personal opinions is that it is a trait that could have gone either way a long time ago...People could have just as easily decided that it was an interesting morph. Duffy

I used to produce some normal eyed and some bug eyed ones, even though all of my breeders had normal eyes. Most customers did not want the bug eyed ones, but some customers asked for them because they liked them. That trait in gold fish is selectively bred for, so although I don't care for it myself, it could actually be desirable to some people. I never noticed any difference in the way the bug eyed snakes acted, fed, or seemed to be able to see, so I can't say it affected them in a negative way.

I appreciate the perspective as I try to get into this new snake (new to me). I'm wondering if you all have any opinions on temperment. I'm hearing from people that they are often unpleasant as young snakes but can be tamed down. Is that normally the case or is it kind of 1/2 & 1/2. If I get one w/ an attitude, what amount of handling are we talking about, like daily for a year or a weekly "outing"? I wonder becuase I have a skittish corn that has taken over a year just to get her to stop "running" every time she's touched.
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2.1 Corn snakes Snake Plissken, Jack Skellington & Abby
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
1.3 leos, Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo (Indy)
0.1 Pacman frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
1.1.4 firebelly newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John, Helmut Newton & Thandie Newton
1.1 cats Gus & Mena

While they have a reputation for being nippy and feisty, it's really not much more than your "average" baby ratsnake. My friend who breeds them seems to have mostly calm ones. Mine would bite me when I first picked him up then settle down right away. It took a few months of handling 3 or 4 times a week. And when I really stop and think about it...he only drew blood a couple of times. I just handled him this morning, and he is great. Maybe a little more "active" but not mean at all.

I think I appreciated him more since I had to work with him a little. When he was small, I was determined to "tame" him and even used latex gloves for a short period since I had heard that they dislike the taste. Most likely the biggest advantage of the gloves was that it made it so that I did not hesitate to pick him up.

Bottom line: If you want a leucistic snake, get a texas rat. If you have the chance to go to a show where you can compare prices, "attitudes" and even bug-eyes...by all means go. When the leucistic texas rat starts to get bigger it is a very impressive animal. As long as you tame them when they are little(and it is usually NOT a problem) they are awesome. Duffy

They have a reputation of being nervous, but I had a line that was much more docile than some of my corns - I had some adults that I could take to shows and let kids play with. But other lines may not be the same. Sorry, mine were dispersed and I don't know if anyone produces that line now. But ask a reputable breeder (like Don S. - I think he may produce them) about their bloodlines and they can probably tell you what MOST (not all) are likely turn into as adults.

I have only had the pleasure of keeping one, and it was only for about a month, when she first arrived she was a bit "shy" and had the classic texas rat attitude, she never bit though, only gaped and hissed and that stopped once I picked her up...I held her once a day for 10-20 minutes and by the end of the month she was calming down greatly and now, a few months later, she is a wonderfully behaved snake and rarely even postures when you open the cage

..another pic of when she still had a little attitude

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~~~Amy~~~
~my zoo~
corns
1.0 caramel/amber het butter motley-Phoenix 1.0 sunglow motley-Eli 0.1 charcoal-Siva 0.1 caramel het butter-Kilowea 0.1 butter 50% het motley-Mango 0.1 ghost-Pandora 1.0 hypo motley-Vishnu
leopard geckos
0.1 hypo tang-Ms. Cleo 0.1 normal-Valentine
others
1.1 dauchshunds 1.0 cat 2.15 fancy mice(and way too many babies to count LOL)

My Photos
My E-Mail

>> My Website Siva*s Serpents