Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Round 4..... I can't believe these guys...

I think I have been telling you that for years, "You just can't stop them"if they are healthy)

Two Questions, why don't people allow their monitors to be healthy? And what are you doing to make them so much more productive then ones in nature? FR

Well, I didn't want to disclose this information, but...

It's all about the fertility drugs that I've been using on her. The drugs I am currently using were actually developed for avian use, however, through talking with several biochemists and cellular biologists at my university, we have concluded that the same group of chemicals would favor similar results in most reptilian species. It has apparently been successful in my study subjects, as I have yet to see any productivity in my control subjects.

Now that the secret is out... we should see a lot more productivity in people's captive goannas.

Cheers,

Bob

Sorry if I was a bit vague with that post. The chemicals that I implement are the same drugs used in the poultry industry, to stimulate rapid production of eggs by inducing ovulation.

Whenever I feel that the female is of good health, and able to withstand the rigors of egg production(ie. hydration, body mass, etc), she gets an injection. within four days she begins to cycle, and copulation usually follows soonafter.

Bob there is a sub forum for tree monitors please take your posts there from now on.

thanks
alex

and congrats

Thnx Jeff B.

oh bob stop it

i was kidding

alex

Lets see some pics of this.

You do understand, no one else needs that, so why do you? FR

Unfortunately I do not have pictures of the actual process. It is very hard to hold a monitor in one hand, a syringe in the other, and a camera in the third.... Perhaps next time I administer a treatment, I will have a friend come over and photograph it. Up until now, I had told nobody of my 'secret'. But, I am open with my husbandry and experiences, so I do not feel that there is a need to keep any secrets from fellow keepers.

I do have , and have posted many photos of ovulations, females hanging their bodies in peculiar positions while cycling/ovulating, as well as gravid females, nesting, and photos of the eggs. Much more than what most people have photos of.

Again, I will try to photograph the procedure next time I perform one, which should be in about another month, once I get some extra weight on this female lace monitor that I have borrowed from a friend- breeding loan type deal.

I can tell you a little bit more about the procedure, although I would prefer to keep in in a more basic jargon, so that all visitors of this forum, both young and old, experienced and inexperienced, from other countries, etc.. can understand it.

Cheers,

Bob

I don't believe you. FR

I really do not see what is so funny, I have provided everyone here with a general understanding of the procedure, and what the injection actually does for the female, chemically. Is it so unbelieveable?

Hell, look at us humans... and look at the frequency of women who currently use fertility drugs to help them get pregnant. Also, look at the percentage of those women who have received such treatments, and the number of fraternal twins, triplets, quadruplets, etc. These drugs cause the female to ovulate, some cause the female to ovulate at irregular rates.

This is virtually the same thing that I have been experimenting with on a portion of my collection.

Again, I do not understand what makes this so unbelieveable. Like I said, I will make sure I take photographs in a month's time, when I try this on the first non-euprepiosaurid varanid. I have no doubt in my mind that the same will work for V. varius as well. The only doubt that I have, is that although the female is of breeding size(almost 5'), the male is significantly smaller, and am not sure if he is old enough or capable of producing fertile sperm. Time will tell, but I find this whole thing to be rather interesting, and perhaps ahead of its time???

Cheers Mate,

Bob

That is not new, its done commonly with frogs and fish. Has been for many many years.

The great thing about monitors is, there is no need to interfere, because as soon as they are healthy they produce. If I were you, I would ask why you need to interfere?

I assume with you sell some offspring, a pair will come with hormones and syringe, hahahahahahahahahaha. Or will that be extra? FR

Dude, you are a trip!!!! You know people are going to be giving their monitors Viagra now!!!!

HELP, He has everted and it wont go down!!!!
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Ed

There are chameleons, pythons, and monitors in my jungle room.

It has nothing to do with the male, so it wouldn't be 'viagra'. It is a hormone which is injected into the bloodstream of the female, which stimulates ovulation in females.

The chemical is a derivative of GnRH(Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone), in which it promotes the secretion of Pituitary Gonadotropin Hormones, such as LH and FSH, which are responsible for stimulation of reproductive cycling in many different vertebrates, even us humans.

Such biological functions such as reproductive cycling, ovulation, etc. are all controlled by chemicals(hormones) which are secreted by glands, into the bloodstream. Without such hormones, these activities would not be able to occur.

All I am simply doing is what a female would naturally do in the wild, which is release PGH's into her bloodstream, which would cause her to undergo the bodily changes associated with ovulation. By injecting the female, she automatically begins to cycle.

The male is irrelevant, until the female is ready for breeding. You can juice the male up with as much 'viagra' as you want, it will not result in a successful mating. It is all about the female and whether or not she is chemically, and physically ready to mate, that decides whether or not you will get fertile eggs and hatchlings in the future.

Cheers,

Bob

Breed em like chickens right!
Enjoy your fun now while it last. Soon enough you will experience the downside of Herpetoculture, when you start seeing your babies die in others hands.
You do realise that this will lead to monitors being breed like snakes in rack system.
You stink my friend big time!

i do not know the people on this forum. From the looks of some of the responses, i do not want to. I realize that opinions are like a..holes and everyone has one, but that does not mean you have to be one. The reason that this forum is here is to exchange ideas and new and innovative ways to keep and breed varanus species. I do not visit this forum often because it is usually lacking in real content. BUT every once in a while, someone does post an informative letter. NOW, here is a guy who appears to be working on increasing production of monitors. IF in fact he is successful, it will mean more cb monitors which will help to reduce the number of wc animals taken from the wild. The fact is that there are very few cb monitors being produced. A small percentage of what is being offered as cb is true captive bred and hatched regardless of what is being said. I have a very nice collection of monitors and doubt if i would ever attempt to use hormones to produce babies BUT the information that he provided is still of use if and when the day would come that i might try it. In all honesty, if monitors where produced like chickens, there would never be a need for another animal ever to be taken from the wild and there would never be a concern for any of the species to ever become extinct. Yes they may become extinct in the wild but you will have habitat destruction to thank for that, not the fact that we are unable to produce babies in a captive environment. I do believe that natural propogation is better but as a last resort, it would be better to "assist" the breeding process than to let a monitor die of old age in captive without contributing to the preservation of its species during its lifetime. Everyone who was so critical of the guy who posted the initial message should rethink their comments and then post one informative suggestion that they have discovered that will increase either the production of monitors or improve the overall health of the species. No, i am not talking about the same old stuff found in all the care sheets, but something new and innovative that will directly assist in improving the husbandry and breeding of monitors. I will look forward to your postings.

He fabricated this out of bordom, you defended it. Being that the subject was fiction, Im guessing his credibility has dropped, next time he may get no responses to his posts, nobody will know what to believe. I guess if it was called by FR as a lie (someone who knows better than anyone else how to get them to breed), I guess he called the bluff as he knew better than us that it would, or wouldnt work, or that it doesnt work that easily. Im not sure why someone would start a debate in that manner, but we fed into it. Im sure a better way to start this debate would have been to ask "whats is everyones opinion on the use of fertility drugs in captive breeding of monitors?".
There is alot of content in this forum on monitors, keeping, caring for, raising, wild monitors, etc, you have to look beyond the arguements that sometimes occur, it is a forum and according to the TOS its ok to debate husbandry of monitors or related subjects. Monitors are fun captives and the husbandry developed to use on them has changed the entire hobby of keeping reptiles, especially the husbandry developed in the last 15 years by Frank Retes.

First of all, the only thing i was defending was the need to keep an open mind. As i stated in the beginning of my post, I do not know the people on this forum, for all i know FR could have been Fried Rutabager. I have been keeping and breeding reptiles for well over 20 years and in the old days it was much more difficult to learn about new husbandry techniques because there was no internet and forums such as this. But the upside is that when you sit around and have lunch with guys like Ron Tremper or Dave Barker and they discuss something new that they have found to work well for them, you can pretty much take that to the bank. Regardless, i have found over the years to listen to everything someone says then decide what you may or may not want to use. Even things that work for other people do not always work for me. Now had i known this persons reputation as well as who FR was, I may have understood a bit more about the sharpshooting (or in this case machinegunning) that was going on. It does not however mean that anything is gospel when dealing with monitors or any species for that matter and the husbandry methods would never have evolved if there were not pioneers willing to "experiment" and take a chance. Not only have I been doing this a long time and have been very successful at it, but I also travel around to see the habitat of many of the species I keep, first hand. BUT i will listen to anything anyone says regardless of wether they have been in the hobby for 1 year or 100 years. Sometimes a new and fresh face to the hobby can provide a new point of view better than an old crusty %%$ like me. It is very unfortunate that this guy has nothing better to do than to fabricate stories but if nothing else, it has been a learning experience for me. I now know who and what he is. Lesson learned.

Where did he admit? There's so many flames on here i can't find it.. seriously, where is it? lol
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady

Nevermind, found it.
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady

LOL, i told you the spanish fly would work, you made fun of me but it works, so send me my money.
scott

Bob, i think what you are doing is fine, if it doesn't effect the monitors in a bad way. I don't understand the posts the others put on here, I guess they think of it as a bad thing?
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady

Those are awesome looking monitors. Did I miss something, but what species is this? Definately something I'd enjoy in my collection.
Your experiment sounds interesting and is definately an innovation in monitor breeding. I hope it never get's abused, but all in all it seems promising. Not being a serious monitor breeder, I'd stick with the natural means, but that's personal preference.
How did you arrive at the dosage administered? Do you have a DVM overlooking the experiment? (not that he'd know anything like dosage... this is new stuff). In Canada we have a system that overlooks all animal testing; called CALAS. Of course it is there to assess animal wellfare, but it also helps to ensure the experimental design is one that is reproduceable and usable in scientific literature. Do you have such a system in the USA? It would be a shame for this to not be shared withen the scientific community.
Thanks again for the post, it was very interesting