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Some thoughts about wide banded easterns

Tony D Jan 29, 2005 02:35 PM

But not the GA type. A few friends and I have been selectively breeding wide banded kings from the mid-Atlantic area since disco was in. Of the group only Howie Sherman maintains a collection that traces back to the early years and continues working with animals captured alone an ancient escarpment in VA called Pungo Ridge. I have since moved to working with stock collected alone a similar ridge in Currituck County referred to as Puddin’s Ridge. Despite not being able to line breed the animals such that we consistently produce wide-banded individuals, our observations have revealed a few patterns. These are:

Among wild populations that exist in mature forest (usually low areas), the ratio of wide to narrow banded animals is roughly 3:7.

Among wild populations that exist in altered grassy habitat (usually higher and well drained) the ratio is reversed (7:3) with the wide banded variety much more in evidence.

In captivity it doesn’t really seem to matter whether you breed wide band to wide band, narrow to narrow or cross the two you end up with the same ratio of wide to narrow banded neonates (3:7) as found in more mature environs.

From this I've arrive at two elementary conclusions. First, its only in disturbed and drier habitat that wider banded animals experience any kind of survival advantage and second, that wide bandedness in these populations is an intrinsic component of the population’s variability.

Despite many generations of selective breeding by several breeders, the trait has not been isolated nor has it been exaggerated. Wild animals every bit as nice as the "best" we produce are still routinely captured.

Replies (9)

Keith Hillson Jan 29, 2005 05:35 PM

Thats very interesting Tony. What about the wide bands in altered grassy habitat made them more succesful do you think ? Arent the Kings from this area (Pungo Ridge) fairly large ? I know Howie has that monster wildcaught male. I would love to get out in the field with you guys one day and at least say I caught an Eastern King !!! lol. I thought this was a interesting pic and quite a beautiful snake. IS this what is typical in the areas with wider banded animals you referred to ?
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Keith
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Keith Hillson Jan 29, 2005 05:36 PM

>>Thats very interesting Tony. What about the wide bands in altered grassy habitat made them more succesful do you think ? Arent the Kings from this area (Pungo Ridge) fairly large ? I know Howie has that monster wildcaught male. I would love to get out in the field with you guys one day and at least say I caught an Eastern King !!! lol. I thought this was a interesting pic and quite a beautiful snake. IS this what is typical in the areas with wider banded animals you referred to ?
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>>Keith
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Sean Jan 29, 2005 08:27 PM

nm

Sean Jan 29, 2005 08:26 PM

I've only found a handful of Eastern Kings down here in Florida along the coast...basically in Salt Marsh habitat. Several had wide bands while the others had thin. I don't think I can base much on such few finds except to say that it just seems both appear in the same habitat. Further to the west though you get into Tates Hell and the Apalachicola National Forest where Apalachicola kings are found. Whether they have some influence or not on these getula to the East I'm not sure. Either way, I really like the wide banded specimens and think they are some of the most beautiful Eastern Kings around.

Phil Peak Jan 29, 2005 08:56 PM

The idea that habitat may play some role in determining the pattern on L.g.getula may have some basis in fact. I have noticed a clear distinction in L.g.nigra as to the amount of pattern and the habitat the snake originated from. Those nigra from drier more upland habitats are the ones that tend toward a jet black dorsum. Those from the lowland areas tend to retain more of the juvenile pattern into adulthood. Recently I was talking with Brian Hubbs and he was telling me about a similar pattern linked trait with holbrooki. From what he was telling me, lowland forms of holbrooki are much more likely to retain the crossbars found in juveniles while those from upland areas are more likely to have an evenly speckled appearance. Perhaps something similar occurs with getula in regards to the thickness of the bands.

BlueKing Jan 30, 2005 12:47 AM

Having lived my high school days in Northern California (in Napa), I have found many cal kings in the wild. All the kings found near my old house in Napa had bands that were quite narrow and I remember having to go 30 miles north to at least Calistoga to find the nicer wider banded individuals of the Cal king. And I would consistently find very nice ones there, but not in Napa, which by the way is only 17 feet above sea level by the way. Calistoga being near the northern end of Napa Valley is a little bit higher in Elevation and drier too!
So therefore I would have to agree on some differences within certain subspecies based on geography (mainly elevation in this case)

Zee

bluerosy Jan 29, 2005 10:22 PM

that wide bandedness in these populations is an intrinsic component of the population’s variability.

Do you mean they are Het for wide bandedness? Kinda like the calif desert stripers found in Borrego? Even the banded desert cal kings from that area will throw striped and abberant patterns. But with many years of captive breeding the traits were not improved at all until other traits (other locality kings like Newport phase ect)were introduced...aka designer desert cal kings.

Tony D Jan 30, 2005 06:39 PM

If they were het in the mendelian sence I'd think that we'd been able to produce them predictably so I don't think so.

STRETCHx Jan 30, 2005 06:38 PM

habitats as well.

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