Reptile & Amphibian Forums

.....35K for lessors??

I seriously doubt it. I think alot of people are trading with some cash thrown in to aquire them.
-----
Chad Bachman

....$35K value? I mean, say $20K trade value.

It's kinda moot anyways...the seller always says, "keep this deal hush-hush", etc...the buyer either doesn't want to admit he/she paid too much or, they got a deal.

What are all these guys gunna do with the $35K 04's when the 05 models come out? Some say they'll hang onto them (with the resulting big breeding colony), and then in 07 the price plummets.

They ought to get real, adjust the price this year, PROTECT their customers, and get on wid it!

SJM

Sounds like someone wants what they can't afford....LOL!!
John

I got me an 04 Mojave that's starting to breed a proven female that gave me a pastel female in 04 so that's cool...SJM

Yes,Very Coooool!!! Good luck and keep us posted on that breeding.
John

even if you /he/I....could "afford" to buy whatever for whatever....why?.....

it's a snake....a little ball....and as said...hush hush deals are all out there..you wouldn't actually believe what they sell for..

I mean I don't actually believe what they sell for..LOL

.....

people inflate their money,numbers,sales..all the time......head games for bigger heads.....

....I asked a guy at a show with a bumble marked $30000 if he'd take 20000 if I actually had it.he laughed and said..show me the money....meaning yes..they take whatever you got alot of times....

I have gotten alot of good deals from friends.....and if not.they aren't my friends..and they can sell to idiots online....right?.....

by the way..I sell just as cheap to friends.......

........yep.......

anyways.........people always yell...jealous when they hear people comment........naaaaaaah..he isn't jealous at all I bet..........why?....35000 would buy a home right now in the right placses.....and that market won't die......

....anyways...

this is pointless.......I know..noone cares...or listens.....

.......blah blah blah blah blah....and then some.........
-----
.................

.
-----
Chad Bachman

Don't be fooled, EVERYTHING IS GENETIC!!!

by the way..I sell just as cheap to friends.......

........yep....... Sooo. I Would Guess you have alot of snakes for sale? LMAO.

well........I might have 40 corn and ? 20 male baby balls left/....some of the good stuff was "kept around " to have stuff for sale over the winter.

I did not wholesale as low as some liked this year.next I will.....so......

yes..I sold ? 300 snakes?...this year.......I have no idea.........guess I should count more times.......

.......female balls all well and fat....corns will start to create follicles any week now....

so......up to 700 babies coming again.......

yep.....

I got alot of friends..........and sell alot of stuff.....

what would you like to know.......?

.......
-----
.................

You sell how many a year....LOL. Sounds like you have no clue who he is, so why try to be smart with him? Is it because your hero dont like him?
-----
Chad Bachman

Don't be fooled, EVERYTHING IS GENETIC!!!

So if I had 35000 to spend and I told my wife hey look what I bought...wow the backlash would be unreal!

Most guys out there would never admitt to having to clear big purchases with there wives or whatever. But I know with my wife as long as she gets something I get something!

35k I don't believe for a second anyone has sold a snake for that.I may be wrong but thats my view...know I could see 5 to 10k in cash and the 5 to 10k in trade but noway 35k cash!

just my view
Paul
1.0 pastel ball
1.1 hat albino balls
0.4 normal females balls
1.1 normal pair of balls breeding now
6.24 bearded dragons (paying for my ball python project!)

I heard Pete Kahl dropped $250,000 for the first Leucistic WC ball python.

We all have our own opinions on these matters and most of us choose not to get too involved in trying to explain our beliefs. Having spent a few bucks on a few snakes I can honestly say that my justification for a $30K animal is selling some of the first offspring from it for $15-20K several years later, when the selling price is to that point.

What's wrong with that?!? I say spend the $30-35K or whatever it takes to get the best looking animal that money can buy. Raise it up and breed it. If the selling pirce at that time is $15-20K how can you go wrong? Once the project breaks even its all net profit minus overhead from then on! I think that too many people think that they will sell offspring for what they paid for thier original stock. That is somewhat foolish. Time goes by... snakes are produced by other people... deals happen and the prices fall. That is true with most marketplaces. In this business you are lucky to have a project as consistent as Pastel Jungles or some of the more stable high-end colubrids. It is quite rare to purchase animals for the same price as you will be selling their babies some years later.

I don't agree with a lot of "price dropping" but if the animal is $20K and no one is buying it, then the price may be a little too high. Perhaps marketing it for $18.5K might be a better way to go. I really don't feel well when a price goes from 35 to 25 to 18 then back up to 20 then down to 15 and then 25 and its stable. I have to wonder how many people bought it before me? If I'm paying $25K for the same animal that another breeder paid $18K for, I am at a huge disadvantage.

I know a lot of people got "Spider-Shy" this past year... they saw the prices drop and they thought the project was doomed. I honestly don't know anyone that bought an '03 Spider male that didn't have great results. As for the breeders that I know personally... we all made money. Some more than others but we all broke even on our investment at least. I'm sure there are some people that didn't break even but I don't know of anyone in particular.

I bought an '03 Spider for about $16K in June of '03. I fed him twice a week like I feed all of my raise-ups. In the end of December of '03 he started breeding. By March of '04 he had bred 5 females. Given my past track record of about 50% I only had 2 of the 5 lay eggs for me. One laid 7 and the other... 8. The first clutch contained 2.2 Spiders and the second also contained 2.2 Spiders. In June and July of 2004 I had the original male and the 4.4 offspring. I decided to keep the males from the first clutch and ALL of the females. I brought the other 2 males to Daytona, Chicago and a few smaller shows and all the while I had to listen to people tell me that I would NEVER sell them because Spiders were worth SO much less. I ran ads on Kingsnake for them and people felt the need to say the same thing. Thats FINE! I said... thanks but no thanks... I'll keep them if they don't sell. Long story a little shorter... I sold them BOTH! I sold them both for my ASKING price at the time. No "undertable" deals or anything like that. I ended up with $18K for the 2 males which put me $2K over my investment and back at the facility I now have 3.4 Spiders which I didn't have previous to June of 2003!

If that doesn't convince me EVERYTIME I hand over an unbelievable wad of cash or a seemingly small piece of plastic to a fellow breeder... nothing will! Why can that not be the deal with Lesser Platties? Or Mojaves? Or Pastels? Or Pinstripes... spiders... yellowbellies... or whatever is the MOST expensive morph at the time!

If you can spend it.... DO IT! If you have the experience and the collection of normal females you can't go wrong unless you have a run of very bad luck. If you can't spend it DON'T... there will come a time when every project is in your price range.

I hope I don't come off rude or as a preacher or anything... but I just wanted to give you all some thoughts that I share with my customers and friends about this marketplace. I have spent $30K on 1 snake... and it was not a partial trade... $30K real funds. It will be the best investment I ever made because it is the largest one I ever made.

Thanks for reading this far...
-----
Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

If I had 100K extra...........I would spend it all with little to no hesitation!

-----
Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

That was just the first year and EVERY YEAR after you will still be producing the baby spiders from the original Male SPIDER and it is also possible you will be breeding the 04 male's you kept also, so the profits increase even that much more so it's a WIN, WIN situation. If you invest and know anything about breeding and hatching ball python eggs you will make money, It is as simple as that. If I had 30K to spend it would be gone, It may take 1 year to get a return but the return will come. Think of it this way if you purchase (1) 30,000 male Lesser and breeed it to 2 females and produce 4 bably lessers out of 15 eggs(both clutches) and the price crashes to 10,000 each you still have made 40,000 in the first year of breeding and you still have the animal you spent the 30,000 on. You cannot look at it as if you lost 20,000 per snake, just because the price dropped and doubt it will drop 20,000 in one year. But that was on a worse case, unless you just totally bomb, that is the only way you would lose. Even then you would still have the following year to catch up. If I am correct Ball pythons breed for a while also. You cannot lose. Thanks David
-----
1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

All 3 male Spiders, the original as well as his two 7 month old sons have been breeding for about 2 months now. The Spider project is an extremely strong one market-wide. We are very happy with our present position in the Spider market and we will not hesitate to purchase other morphs in their same situation.

Good luck to you and everyone else! This year should be a lot of fun!

Thanks again,

-----
Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

IF you can afford it and Belive in it then like Nike says "just do it".There is still money to be made
Kevin

np

Platty Daddy is linked to Lesser Platty, and no Mojave has yet to produce a Platty Daddy, so I would say there is still justification for the price difference.

Platty Daddy is my favorite morph to date, and I could care less about the white snakes any of them produce (although I would still like to own them).

JMO
-----
Chad Bachman

.......I would buy a pair of MOJAVES.

Scoop a sub-adult female for 18-20K and a 04 male for 12K or so.

Of course, Im not a big fan of Lessers anyways, and would just take the cheapest route to a Super Mojave/Leucistic.

Just my, and I'm sure atleast a few others, opinion.

BB

...Ba dum bumpt.

I think your logic makes alot of sense. Mojaves give you a much better "bang for your buck". Sure you could make money by breeding lessers,but they have LOTS of room to free fall.When people get real about their value,then they`ll start selling for their asking price. People have the right to attempt to sell their animals for whatever they want to,and conversely I have the right to laugh at the lesser prices and invest in other ball python projects. Mark Petros ballpython777.com