Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's another shot. Finally figured out how to get ok pics with my digital camera, and figured out how to get them onto my gallery to use for here. Enjoy!

Great snake Russ. Love those pics of northern pines, you have some spectacular animals. How many breeders do you have in your Northern Pine colony?

Nick

I have four adults now. Then these two hold backs. I'll TRY not to let the collection grow much more. Otherwise I'll be producing WAY too many pines every year.
Russell

Just a few questions: how many babies do you get from each female? And why would you produce too many, do pines not sell that well? I ask because I plan to have a large pine colony, seeing as they are my favorite snakes, but I may reconsider if it is difficult to sell that many babies. Also, whose stock did yours come from? Any wild blood? I plan to get a baby or two from you sometime in the future.

First off, I've only bred my Pines for two years now. This year will be my third attempt. The first year, only my big pine bred, and laid 12 eggs, of which 11 hatched. Last year she had 11 eggs, of which all hatched. And last year my younger female was ready,laid 7, of which all hatched. That is how my production has gone so far. I sold my babies cheaper than many put theirs for, and it took almost a month of advertising on Kingsnake.com ads for them all to sell at 60 each, at least, that's what I started out at, then reduced to 50 for males in the last week of advertising. And that was with people lined up to buy before they hatched. But see, people change their minds, or money situation changes, or, some get out of herps all together cause of other reasons... I still see ads there for baby bullsnakes born around the same time my pines did, so what's that tell you? Yes, they are popular, but if you've only got a thousand Pit hobbyists, and two thousand babies... So you see, there aren't many breeders that can say they make a living from this, much less actually make money, especially when it comes to Pits, as they eat...a LOT plus they get so big, so they need bigger meals. So yes, think carefully about wanting to start a colony. Think about why you want to do it. If you want to make money with snakes, I'd suggest a different genus. But if you just have a love for Pits, rather than the love of money, well then by all means, dive right in! There was a time John Meltzer couldn't GIVE his New Jersey Northern Pines away! And they used to be sold for so much less to his pet stores that he sells to... The popularity rises and falls in each group. Look at corn snakes! I consider myself lucky if I sell a normal corn! Just a few years ago John couldn't buy all my babies at even 10 dollars each, cause there are just too many corns being produced versus the demand. So having to accept 5 dollars for baby corns, well, I didn't make ahead, I think! I guess I don't really think about the money end too much. Cause that's what I have a full time job for, that I also put in ten hours or more overtime every week. But anyhow, my stock comes from John Meltzer of RJ Reptiles. He's still selling high contrast Northern Pines, but for about the market price now, not the little change he used to get for them. But you know? He never dumped them just cause they weren't making money, cause he loves Pines! And I'm glad he does, cause now I have such beauties in my collection, along with my collection of corn snakes, not those blasted yucky ball pythons everyone is going ga ga about...he he he... His original animals are all dead now, and they were from a fellow that had wild caught adults. My animals are out of his originals, and the younger pair I have are out of one of his original females and a young male out of one of the other pair of originals as I understand it. So they are a couple generations removed from the wild. Yes, his animals were in their twenties when they passed on. But that's also proof I think, that when you raise an animal slowly, they last longer, rather than pushing a meal into them as often as you can, causing them to grow up fast, and reproduce early...and too many times, die at a younger age than if you take your time. Now I'm itching to pull my snakes out of hibernation...I'm ready to feed and breed again! Sure was nice having a break from all that extra cleaning, feeding, changing water bowls...ect...ect... Now, if I ever included my labor in this...I'd be WAY in the hole in this hobby of mine!

Well, I want to make money, but there is also the love for the northern pine, which is my favorite snake. I was thinking a colony would suit well if I had 2 males to 7-8 females rather than pairs or trios. That way I would get more babies per snake being fed, and as I said they are my favs, so I would want several of them, but I also want to be able to sell all of the babies. I was thinking that pits have been getting more popular, as you said he couldnt give them away before but now they sell for $60. I found an old price guide with albino northerns for $60, now that same company sells them for $125. From that, I was hoping demand was increasing, and that the price would continue to go up for normals with higher demand for them. Even if not, I would still keep them, it would just be prefered to make money at the same time. I plan to have several other species to make the big money, and pines for the personal satisfaction. As for Meltzer, that is who I plan to get my future breeders from, no wonder I like yours so much! Say, if you know any one else with nice looking snakes from originally wild caught babies, Id like to know, as Id like to diversify. Also, I am seeking the northern pine with reddish saddles instead of black, I think Meltzer had ONE pop out unexpectedly, but it might have been someone else. I hear there is one at a zoo that has deep maroon saddles. If you know anyone that has anything like that, Id like to know as well. They should be a coastal New Jersey locality.

Thanks for all the info, I didnt realize pines could have that many babies. I hope I can spread the joy of northern pines to many herpers!