Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would like to know what that meens? Is a F3 Salmon boa a boa that had an F2 Parent? Thanks Andy

You are correct in your assumption that F3's are from F2 parents. An F1 is a captive bred offspring from wild caught parents. F2 offspring from F1 parents and so on.

I'm probably wrong but this is what was explained to me.
F1 means the babies came from unrelated parents. F2 would be if say the two siblings were bred together and their offspring would be F2.
If you bred F2s together their offspring would be F3.
Like I said this is how it was explained to me if I'm wrong please let me know.
Chuck

I just bought a f-1 hypo last night and got it explained to me. It is used interchangealy and get mixed up all the time.

The F-scale can be used as far as wildcaught is concerned. F-1 being the first generation CB from WC parents. F-2 being from 2 F-1's. F3's being from 2 F-2's, etc.....

The F-scale is now being used in terms of morphs. F1 being the first generation. F-2's being bred from two F-1's, etc... same as above. The higher F you get the more that snake has that specific gene and the more likely all the babies will come out that way. F-1's may produce some like offspring but not all. Where as (i think) F-4's produce all.

Not an expert, this is just how it was explained to me.... Jon
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0.0.1 Giant Pixies
1.1.0 Albino Pacmans
0.0.1 Green Ornate Pacman
2.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.1.0 Brown Clawed Frog
0.0.1 Superlight Baby Sulcatta
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0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors
1.1.0 Orange and yellow flame Niger uromastyx
1.1.0 Mali Uromastyx
0.1.1 Ball pythons
1.1.0 pastel Columbian boa

I guess we all can use the knowledge gained here. I see how F 1,2,3's are now but what if you breed an F2 to a normal Colombian BCI ? Does it remain an F2 or does it still become F3 offspring? Thanks all for the imput. Andy

It would be an F1. Anything bread to a normal would be an F1.

>I guess we all can use the knowledge gained here. I see how F 1,2,3's are now but what if you breed an F2 to a normal Colombian BCI ? Does it remain an F2 or does it still become F3 offspring?

It depends. If you are using the F numbers to signify the generations captive bred, it depends on how many generations of captive breds the normal comes from. If that is unknown, then the babies are just captive breds.

If used in the genetic sense, if the F2 is homozygous for a given mutant gene, then the F2 and the normal become the new P generation, and their babies are F1s. Otherwise you do not use an F number at all. If the F2 is not homozygous for a given mutant gene and the normal is not closely related, then their babies can be called outcrosses.

Paul Hollander

If anyone was wondering the F stands for Filial.

DEF: Genetics. Of or relating to a generation or the sequence of generations following the parental generation.

Justin Higgs
ECTOTHERMZ...

I was not aware that {F*} was being used to describe generations of captive breeding, I thought it was (and I hope it remains) only a way of signifying filial relationships, so we have an idea about how many generations were inbred to produce the offspring. Going above 5 filial generations seems dangerous to me, and personally I would not go above F3 before throwing some different line in there to maintain diversity of the gene pool. the F4 salmons I have seen are stunning, and I have not heard about any unwanted physical mutations affecting health or a higher mortality rate among them, but maybe there are some people who just aren't talking about it.
I think the {CB*} system would be a great way of providing some kind of pedigree for the offspring being produced. I think it would be great to have a central registry of bloodlines for the more popular species being bred.
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Jeremy J. Anderson
snakepimp.com
gemstatereptiles.com
Of course it's my opinion, I said it, didn't I?
Breeding season is always just around the corner....JOY!!!

Actually, the terms F1, F2, etc come from genetics and were coined back before 1920.

A male from one purebreeding stock (say albino) is mated to a female of another purebreeding stock (say normal). These are the parental (P) generation, and ideally the two strains only differ at one gene. The offspring of the P generation are the first filial (F1) generation, and the offspring of two F1 individuals are the second filial (F2) generation. Two F2s produce the F3 generation, and so on.

There is little reason to use F numbers after the F2 generation. If only one mutant gene is involved, an F2 x F2 mating is genetically the same as the two originals of the P generation, as mating two F1s, or as a backcross of an F1 to one of the P generation. So it is more understandable to work from the genotypes of the F2 individuals involved in a mating than to use F3, and it is better for the stock's genetic health to outcross the F2s to individuals that are less closely related than a sibling.

An F3 salmon (AKA hypo) boa constrictor may be genetically homozygous for the salmon mutant gene. But do not take that as certain. It depends on the genes it got from the F2 parents. If the two F2 salmons are the genetic equivalent of two F1s, then some of the F3s would be normal both in genes and appearance.

I'm not in favor of using F1, F2, etc to signify number of generations captive bred. IMHO, CB1, CB2, etc is better. And after a while, if no pedigree is provided, CB is about all anyone can say about a particular captive bred individual.

Paul Hollander