Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My Black Rat Snake has a rough, scaley (yes, i know it is a snake and snakes have scales) spot on the top of her nose. I think she may have developed it when she used to rub her screen top. She doesnt do that any more but she does burrow a lot. Im wondering if it is the substrate (crushed walnut shells) or the rocks in the cage. I dont think she is rubbing the glass because it is on top of the nose and not just the end. Do Black Rat Snakes like to burrow? She stays under the substrate quite a bit now. Are my hides not adequate? I have noticed that she burrows in the cool end (72f). She will hide under her rock on the warm end a lot as well.
The rocks in the cage are slate and sandstone. The substrate is very loose and easily moved about. Any treatments or fixes in mind? She is eating VERY well and doesnt seem so occupied with escape until she is being handled. I have been contemplating a more humid or moist envirionment for her, but respritory problems scare me much more than an irritated nose (barring infection).

Thanks guys,

Jason

Well, I can't say for sure what your particular snake is doing to injure its nose that way, but I can tell you that I had a similar experience. One of my girl's black rats developed the same problem with its nose. We know hers definitely injured itself by rubbing against the screen because we saw it do that so often. The solution for me was to put in better hides. I posted here and a regular on the forum named Duffy told me that the snake was trying so hard to get out because the conditions were not right. After tinkering with a few things, I found that better hides solved the problem altogether (by the way, thanks Duffy, if you're reading). The snake in question now spends tons of time in the new hides, has since shed, and no longer has a trace of the nose problem.

Now, I'm not saying that's definitely the case with your snake, but having seen your set up, I would guess that those rocks aren't so great for your rat, and that it would like very much to have some better hides.

Insofar as whether they burrow - yes, lots. Again, I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't think the substrate could injure it in the way you describe.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

Im not a big fan of crushed walnut shells.I doubt they would digest well if accidently eaten.As for being restless I would try tight fitting hides and putting your rat in a quite spot in the house.If the temps are correct this should help.If your handling too much this will stress a juvie out also.

I know a guy who swears by his crushed walnut shells for his chidrens pythons, I just don't like them for colubrids. They love tunneling, and if you have aspen they can tunnel and actually be able to form something that will stay for a little bit, rahter than collapse back down within itself.

In the wild they will tunnel in dead decomposing leaves on the forest floor, and I think aspen simulates that very well.

How many hides do you have in your tank? You should have one hide on the cool side and one on the warm side.

Also, are your hides too big? Colubrids are one type of snake that get a sense of security from feeling something (the top of the hide) touching on their back.

There is really no need for a more humid environment as long as it's shedding well. The humidity in my room during the winter has dropped as low as ~35% and mine are still shedding fine, I just misted them daily as soon as I noticed the blue phase, until they shed.
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

Thanks for your responses.
I do have hides on both sides of the tank, but you are probably correct about their size. I am going to take your advice and put smaller hides in. For now, I have stuck a cardboard wrapping paper core over the top of a beaker (the kind that has a triangular shape to the bottom with a skinny neck) and laid it down length wise in the cage. She went right in and hasnt come out all day. Maybe the high traffic area for my 110 students is causing anxiety for her. I will look into moving her as well. She is right by the door.
I will get the aspen (or coconut?)shavings this weekend. I wonder if I should just put them on top of the crushed walnut or change completely.
In the meantime, should I treat her nose with anything? It just looks a little rough, no inflation or rawness. But I am not a snake doctor either.

OH! one other thing, are any of you regular herpers smokers. She shows no agression towards me or my students, but one of my fellow teachers has come by during feedings twice and she has vibrated her tail (which she has never done before) and struck at him both times. Both times were after his nicotine breaks. Just curious, maybe it is nothing. Thought I would ask.

Thanks
Jason

that vibrating of the tail and such sounds like pms - post mouse syndrome. still in the mode to eat and is willing to get anthing warm. my bairdi does that sometimes. I would also just totally dump the walnut and put just aspen down. a toilet paper roll stapled at one end will work fine for a young black rat for a hide.
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

I would go with Chris on this and say get rid of the walnut substrate although my choice would be either cypress mulch or coconut husk chips. I would also ditch the rocks and put in some natural branches with gnarly bark. Position the branches so your snake can climb if it wants to. Black Rats like to climb when given the opportunity. Also, I would move the cage out of the high traffic area. Also, I always think of Black Rats being a grassland/forest species, so even though they shed okay in lower humidity, I would still try to keep the humidity higher - say 50 to 60 percent average.
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Matt Campbell
Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House
Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

Assistant Curator
Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, Illinois

I really like the coco husk chips, i use them for my chondro, my only concern using them in a colubrid environment would be the tunneling ability. they seem to be very dry and loose. Have you ever used them in a colubrid tank before?

I love them..they're just so danged expensive.
-----
-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

I appreciate all the advice. The hide situation is already fixed. The substate will be changed this weekend. I do have branches in the enclosure already.
Am I wrong in guessing that the rough spot will go away with the next shed? I hope so. If not I am guessing that I should not treat it with anything and it will heal itself.

Thanks again
Jason

does the rough spot look somewhat like a scar? When shedding, there is a slight fluid that gets underneath the dead skin - eases in assistance with the shed coming off. however, the new skin is extremly tender at this point. therefore, if the snake rubbed against the top during that point it damaged the new skin cells and the shed on top will stay - essentially a scab - until it heals.
-----
-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

No. It really lookes like really dry skin. Just kinda flaky or ashy. Im watching really close for the shed this time. The last one didnt go very well. The other snake (dekays brown snake) shed just fine over the weekend. A nice one piece shed and the two humidities are identical. I really do think this is from rubbing, and I will probably fix the screen, maybe with duct tape as suggested.

Jason

Just my opinion, but I've had snakes of some sort or another for over 42 years and my money's on the screen top. Years back I use to house my snakes in aquariums with screen tops and several colubrid types would occassionally do the same. Snakes don't just crawl around to find a new hide spot or to get more comfortable. They have other instincts as well(I.E.-mating,eating etc.). Your snake may be still rubbing it's nose when your not aware. A trick I use to do was to turn the lid upside down and line the screen with duct tape starting with the outer edges and working your way towards the center, leaving the center area clear for ventilation. In my experience the snakes would always rub mostly around the edges because they had the glass to lean on and build up leverage. I never had any bad experiences doing this and the narrowing of the opening on top helped hold in heat and humidity. Just be careful to have the stickey side of the tape facing up, away from the snake.