Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, I'm finding my nile is growing "too fast" to be properly tamed. (big surprise, im sure) I've been feeding him "as much as he will eat" which currently, has been roughly 1 mediumish mouse every other day. hes currently 9.5 inches snout to vent, 25 inches total. isnt that big at all yet, but he was much smaller a couple of weeks ago when i brought him home, and now hes getting gutsier and starting to try to bite.
Basically, i'm wondering if theres a good rate of feeding that will "slow him down" with OUT stunting him. I want him to grow to his full potential, but at this rate, he will be big enough to do some real damage before i calm him down enough to not get hurt.
Also, how well do they switch over to pre-killed? I've currently just been "watching" when feeding, putting a mouse in every day, taking it out after about 10 minues if hes not interested, but i imagine feeding him something where he doesnt have to violently kill it might help him chill out a bit. I know i can probably calm him down enough to have a "dispaly animal" that i can at least care for properly, but i'd rather like to have a nice kitten tame pet. Naturally i know that nile's are not the best choice for such a pet, but its what my fiance REALLY wanted, and lo and behold here i am left with taming.

And a side note, i keep his enclosure fairly dim, his heating comes from a blacklight and a ceramic heater, will he do better if i add a normal light on top of his cage for daytime (he is around other light sources, so he gets enough light to form a photoperiod) or do they perfer to have their enclosure lit up?
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1.3 Dogs (max, tasha, kaya, screw)
1.0 Ghost Corn (Ghost Faced Killa)
0.1 Normal Corn
0.1 Central American Boa Constrictor (Achilla)
0.1 Burmese Python
0.1 Rose Hair Tarantulla (Grumpy)
0.0.1 Usambar Starburts Baboon Tarantula
0.1 White Knee / Zebra Tarantula
2 ferrets (Otis, Milo)
1.2 Emperor Scorpion
0.0.1 Melleri Cham (Sir Arthur Chamleon Doyle)
1.0 Nile Moniter
0.0.2 mice that were just to cute to feed to anything
And an ever-changing fishie tank...

you shouldn't of purchased a nile, perhaps not even a monitor. You cannot make them something they are not. Wanting a kitten tame nile is like wanting a kitten tame tiger.

It really doesn't matter if you grow him fast slow or inbetween. He is either going to relax around you and trust you or he is not. There will always be the potential for getting bit no matter how calm you get him to.

I also would toss the ceramic heat emitter and the black light. I would use a good old flood bulb incandescent or halogen. I use 45-65 watt bulbs for my cages.

Those are some dang nice looking niles, holy moly. Are those the pair that laid eggs??? are the eggs good? Holy moly. FR

Yes, the first picture. Yellow pair are the ones. The eggs are still looking good. 3 have dented but still look good otherwise.

Thanks

HOw do you get proper temps with a 40-65 watt bulb? If it were somebody else I"d think you were crazy, but your photo's show obvoiusly healthy varanids.

Placement of the bulbs is key. Obviously at 6 feet away the higher wattage is needed to increase the basking temps, but in doing so will also increase the ambients greatly.

To allow for high basking temps without increasing the ambient temps, place the bulb closer. This will still give you a good basking temp. and allow a good temp. gradient for proper thermoregulation.

You can either lower the bulb closer to the substrate or lift the basking area closer to the bulb. You can also use more then 1 bulb to allow for a larger basking surface. This works well for larger monitors.

Is this an Egyptian blue in the tub? Some of these guys are as blue as any macraie you know that. Is this the only blue nil you have?
Few years ago my friend got a shipment (dead on arrival) in that shipment was the most striking monitor iv ever seen, about 10in TL and very contrasted blue, white and black, all others in that shipment seem quit ordinary with hints of blue. Iv been trying to obtain them ever sins with no luck.
rgds

yes thats a big blue egyptian beast. I handed it over to a friend of mine though. I'll try to get better pictures of it next time I go down to his place.

Jody hold on to that animal, they are very few and far between in nature, and they have the potential to be the prettiest monitor in Herpetoculture, if you’d have seen the baby iv seen you’d understand. In any case if your selling aim buying, ill even drive to Florida for this one.

Well I doubt my friend will give up that nile now. I have seen them available down here every once in awhile. If I see anymore I will let you know.

Probly some running around in the wild here in florida someplace too.

Yeah, I love Florida. That's where i got my sav monitor. For only $40. He was from a private breeder and he's beutiful. not as beutiful as that black monitor in the tub? I absolutely love that monitor man. what kind is it?
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady

n/p

IF he ever allows you to handle him has nothing to do with how much to feed him. Its a monitor, its most probably an imported stressed out hatchling that dislikes people as usually they do, on top of that its a nile, thats typical of niles in general to not want to be handled, or interact with people, many monitors will never enjoy interacting with people, some will, some enjoy doing so. The point being, you should have been prepared from the beginning for whatever the monitor chooses to be, after all they are very intelligent animals. A monitor that size set up properly could eat alot more than that, that much daily and alot more. Let the monitor decide on its on terms to come to you, just make sure your prepared for a monitor that will not interact with you if it chooses to do so.

Perhaps i didnt make it clear that i "understand" its very likely i'm going to have an animal that will never tame up, however i find it naturally preferable to get him to be very tame. I'm just seeking ideas on how to persue this goal. I am already prepared to have a large, mean lizard which has no liking of interaction with me.

currently, my attempts to tame/calm him consist of holding him alot, a min of 30 mins at least once a day, although i try to take him out for 10-40 minutes 2-4 times a day, often trying to do handling in succesion, putting him back into his cage after hes been calm for at least 5 minutes, picking him back out after a couple of minutes. and at least once a day i'll try to go over common "activities" that would involve interaction, bathing, nail trimming (since his nails are already trimmed, i currently just handle his feet alot) hopefully soon he will start to calm enough for me to start "going into his mouth" incase i ever need to medicate him, which i likely will once i get a fecal on him.

as for the light/heating, the blacklight is a normal type of lightbulb in a floodlight dome, so emits plenty of heat, perhaps not as much as floodlights but since i have it about 5 inches from the substrate and its a small tank it seemed pretty good, the idea is its a light we can leave on 24/7 to keep his tank warm without disturbing us at night. basking spot is about 115 right now, and it gets a fair bit warmer than that in the day, from 5-15 degrees, depending on the outdoors temp. When he moves up to his new tank, which we jsut hauled home today, he will also have flood lights on a timer. it was just hard to fit anything more into a 40 breeder, and i just today lucked out in picking up a 120 gallon to hold him until i convince my inner-constructionist to put something together for him which can hold him into adulthood. plus i can make the dirt alot deeper for him, allowing him to make better burrows that what the 6 inches he has now allows for.

his fat storage in his tail has gotten fatter while i've had him, and he does a nice amount of exploring and digging, with very little pressing and digging the corners, so i dont think hes "undereating" due to his current care, infact he's most likely feeling "better" than when i got him, since he has improved from light thrashing, to thrashing and biting, has gotten more active, and has increased his fat storage.
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1.3 Dogs (max, tasha, kaya, screw)
1.0 Ghost Corn (Ghost Faced Killa)
0.1 Normal Corn
0.1 Central American Boa Constrictor (Achilla)
0.1 Burmese Python
0.1 Rose Hair Tarantulla (Grumpy)
0.0.1 Usambar Starburts Baboon Tarantula
0.1 White Knee / Zebra Tarantula
2 ferrets (Otis, Milo)
1.2 Emperor Scorpion
0.0.1 Melleri Cham (Sir Arthur Chamleon Doyle)
1.0 Nile Moniter
0.0.2 mice that were just to cute to feed to anything
And an ever-changing fishie tank...

With time and gentle handling nil’s become trustworthy, iv yet to see one that hasn’t.
Not so sure about you forcing handling on yours, personally I never do this unless its necessary, usually a regular husbandry schedule that allows touching the monitor or moving him out of his water bowl is all that’s needed, I try to reward with food afterwards. This specie is probably smarter then the rest, at least its smarter then most think it is, this animals has a fascinating biology yet its poorly known and quit misunderstood, literature cites it as evil and ranks it in the 150-200m TL range, well not the case! First this monitor is almost never kept in conditions that allows full growth potential, next even nature treats them bad! Unfavourable conditions allowing growth 2-maybe 3 months a year. They get much larger then documented.
When young they are quit easy to handle, there short neck keeps them from turning on you, other species like salvator are more of a challenge in this regard, when adult I just love the way they communicate with there keeper, this is one specie that lets you know where you stand and where the limits are! its only in recent years that iv learn about their warning bite, iv been bitten( food competition) a few times by really large males without a scratch, I have no other monitor specie that can do this, at least not without some kind of skin damage. Needles to say an aggressive bite will do damage. Learn to respect your monitor, treat him with understanding, be patient eventually he will stop biting and tail whipping you.

what would i be best advised to use as reward treats? crix, pinkies, a whole normal mouse meal, bits of liver or other human consumption foods?

also, is there a general rule of thumb for size of moniter to size of enclosure? you know, so i know when its "time" to adjust him up from the 180 gallon? my own guess is about 2x length of moniter to length of cage for bare min, and 3-4x being prefered, but thats just my "best guess" and not based on any moniter expeirence. of course, with him being at almst 2 ft long himself tip of nose tot ail, that makes the 6ft tank hes about to go into the bare min... what hes about to go into is 6x2x2. finding a lid for this thing is harder than i had thought. i plan to fill it halfway (1 ft) with dirt, i'm about to go reading up on some good mixes, since the pure topsoil he has right now caves in on him alot, not a big deal at a few inches deep right now, but at a foot deep, at his size, it becomes a big deal. plus it makes him way too dirty. Would it be helpful or a hassle to him if i were to use peices of pvc pipe in the dirt as "starter" tunnels? this struck me as an exceptionally good idea with one of the local hardware stores going out of bussiness and i can pick the big stuff up for like a buck a peice now...
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1.3 Dogs (max, tasha, kaya, screw)
1.0 Ghost Corn (Ghost Faced Killa)
0.1 Normal Corn (Tigera?)
1.0 Yellow Rat
0.1 Central American Boa Constrictor (Achilla)
0.1 Burmese Python
0.1 Rose Hair Tarantulla (Grumpy)
0.0.1 Usambar Starburts Baboon Tarantula
0.1 White Knee / Zebra Tarantula
2 ferrets (Otis, Milo)
1.2 Emperor Scorpion
0.0.1 Nile Moniter
0.0.1 Tegu
Jack Dempsey Tank...

...can lead to a whole heap of trouble.
A word of caution, I wouldn't let the monitor associate being carried, with a 'reward'.
I did just this for a while with my big male. I'd take him back to his cage, set him down, and go get his food. It didn't take too long for him to start looking for his food early. Like, while I was still carrying him back to his cage, early.
He would clamp onto my arm, and not let go, while he darted his head around, ready to snap at anything moving(-my hands!). It became quite the struggle to scrape him OFF my arm back into the cage without getting bitten.
I'm taking great pains now to not let any feeding occur at the same time as any handling, but he taking a long time to forget. He still thinks being carried back to his cage equals getting food soon, and he tries hard to cling onto me and sniff me out for food. He hangs tight with every toenail he has.

Just imagine a girl scraping a black beast off onto a branch, yelling "Get OFF of me, AHHHH, you big OAF!"
D.

Food rewards water changing and an occasional scrubbing are just about the only tools we have to create a keeper kept bond, if it wasn’t for these monitors would not interact with us, they do not understand about other aspect of husbandry we provide for them, all we need is to learn how to use these tools. In your case the reward should not be a feeding, hungry teenagers go ballistic. My treats are rat pups (witch they take in my hand) and young adults are fed prior handling to calm them a little, in this case the reward is a warm bath and a scrubbing (they love this after a while) when back in there cage a few rat pups. I just love my nil’s

>>currently, my attempts to tame/calm him consist of holding him
>>alot, a min of 30 mins at least once a day, although i try to
>>take him out for 10-40 minutes 2-4 times a day, often trying to
>>do handling in succesion, putting him back into his cage after
>>hes been calm for at least 5 minutes, picking him back out
>>after a couple of minutes. and at least once a day i'll try to
>>go over common "activities" that would involve interaction,
>>bathing, nail trimming (since his nails are already trimmed, i
>>currently just handle his feet alot)

It sounds to me like you are training him to be afraid of you. Remember these are very high strung animals. Being forcibly restrained stresses it out. It is learning that whenever you come around, it is in for a very frightening, very stressful time.

Rather than forced handling, try to get it to trust you on its own terms. This will be tough, but rewarding if it works. Start with getting it used to you just being around, like when cleaning its cage or feeding it. If possible, just hang around so that it can see you when it comes out, perhaps read a book or something near its enclosure. Once it is comfortable with your presence, try to get it to see you as a provider of good things. Food works best for this. If you can, lure it out of its cage with food, let it wander around your feet for a bit, then lure it back into its cage with more food, all without picking it up. Finally, see if it will let you touch it. When it is comfortable with this, progress to holding it if it will allow this.

Again, good luck. You will need it with this species.

Luke

i try to make about 50% of my ventures into his cage un-related to him directly, so that he doenst immediatly think im yanking him out. either to mess with his prey, poke aorund his lights, take some temps (after some random readings, im thinking i'll be ordering a temp gun this weekend... there were no changes to bring it from 120 to 145 in those 10 minutes) spot clean, just "move things around" or other poking around, soemtimes i just break dirt clumps to keep me occupied and my hands near him. i swear he gets bigger every time i go into that cage too. i cant beleive we had him in a 20 gallon for two days, hes as long as a 20 now! when i take him out he tends to chill after about 10 minutes and i can even start to let him roam my hands, although immediatly panics when he catches sight of a dog. the location of his new cage (once i get some help to carry it in,, that beast is HEAVY!) is in a totally dog-free room so this problem should go away.
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1.3 Dogs (max, tasha, kaya, screw)
1.0 Ghost Corn (Ghost Faced Killa)
0.1 Normal Corn (Tigera?)
1.0 Yellow Rat
0.1 Central American Boa Constrictor (Achilla)
0.1 Burmese Python
0.1 Rose Hair Tarantulla (Grumpy)
0.0.1 Usambar Starburts Baboon Tarantula
0.1 White Knee / Zebra Tarantula
2 ferrets (Otis, Milo)
1.2 Emperor Scorpion
0.0.1 Nile Moniter
0.0.1 Tegu
Jack Dempsey Tank...

In my experience, monitors are always scared and jumpy when small. They only start to mellow out when they get into sexual maturity. As such, slowing down your monitor's growth will only prolong the time when it is most scared of you.

Also, you have a Nile. The chances of it ever coming to trust you are slim. Be prepared to have a very large, very strong, very well armed lizard willing to do whatever it takes to defend itself from your perceived agression for the rest of its life. Again, if this is the case slowing down its growth will not help at all.

Good luck, and may you beat the odds on this one.

Luke