Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have decided to put the dragons in the large vision turtle tub. It measures 76"x40"x22". What are the thoughts on how many adults i can safely keep. Possibly multiple males?
Ryan

you should never keep males together.

I know that it isn't advised, but i have heard that if enough room is provided for the submissive male to retreat out of the dominant males area. I have never had multiple males together, just seeing what everybody thinks.
Ryan

Your tub is basically 6' x 2' which is 12 square feet.....you should be able to keep 4 adult females.....I don't recommend keeping males with females because of the stress males cause and you certainly can't put males together in that size environment. You need to make sure you have more than one basking area, so all the girls can bask adequately and watch to make sure all are eating adequately and active and not being dominated by any or all of the others.

last I heard there is 12" in 1 foot. That would mean the 40" side is more like 3'4" not 2. If you work it out it is 21.1 square feet total, not 12. The Bearded Dragon manual recommends a min or 72" x 30" for 2.4 beardies. I would say he has more than enough room for that ratio in the tub he mentioned.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
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I stand corrected on the square footage.....I misread the middle number to be 20 not 40.....it is 21.11 square feet approx. You can easily house 7-8 females in that environment it you have sufficient basking areas and cool areas set-up. One male could possible go in replacing a female but I would not put 2 you are asking for trouble IMO......The Bearded Dragon Manual referenced the 72 x 30 size for commercial breeding facilities.....not for pet owners and hobbyist breeders....they are willing and able to accept the potential damage to one of the males or both and the potential loss as they are not pets.

Just because they are a commercial breeding facility, they place little to no value on there breeding stock. Have you ever kept a large group together with more than one male? Do you know anything about social hierarchy in beardies. Have you observed the behaviors first hand? He can keep 2.4 in that size enclosure very easily, and will probably learn more about the species from doing so. There will male "combat" and posturing until one emerges as the Alpha. What is wrong with that?
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

I don't recall saying they place little value on their stock.....they have contracted vets, and can absorb the costs of loss and vets much easier than the hobbyist breeder and don't look at them as pets like most of us do. Yes, there will be a battle and one will emerge dominant......personally I wouldn't put any of my breeders/pets through that and risk injury to them if I can avoid it.....it's not necessary so why do it. If you think that's cool or something.....you go right ahead.....but I care more about my animals than to do something that will potentially cause harm so one can be the victor and dominant one.

I believe the ideal is prevent possible severe injuries between two or more male brearded dragons fighting over the females and terratory. I however feel the statement that professional breeders don't consider the wellbeing of their animals as much as 'pet' owners very wrong. Maybe those breeders who do things like run puppy mills wouldn't care what condition their animals are kept in but I doubt any legitimate breeder would risk harm to his breeding groups.

For the indicated size of enclosure I would suggest just dividing it to keep either two smaller breeding groups together (say 1:3) separated by either frosted glass or plywood or keep all the females and maybe one male in two thirds of the enclosure, and a single male or subadult female (or more) in the last third.

Heck, one bearded dragon would love the extra space too.

Well, you just said that to prevent possible injury they should not be kept together.....so anyone keeping them together is risking possible injury.....so let me know why large breeders do it then.......I'd say they are willing to assume the risk that most of us wouldn't with our pets.......I never said they were wrong to do it.....it's a choice, but a choice with risks. I also never said they didn't care about the well being of their animals, but it's simply not the same as those who keep them as pets.

By commercial breeders, Tracey is referring to people like a "well known company in El Salvadore", that obviously does not put their animals well being at the top of the list. Their practices vary greatly from a hobbyist or small breeder.

Oh. I thought she was refering to people like a well known company in california that made the statement about cage size and breeding group ratios in the Manual.

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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

males should not be kept together....If you are willing to risk the injury then do so.....it's your choice.....just not a risk I'm willing to take with my pets/breeders.

Exactly, it is a choice. Not only mine, but anyone who keeps dragons. It is not right for you or anyone else on the forum to suggest that you can't put 2 males in the same enclosure, especially one of that size. Your exact words were "you certainly can't put males together in that size environment". That is flat out wrong.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

Yes, when I misread the size and thought it was a 6' x 2' setup.....duh.....after that I said it's not advisable because of potential injury.........

let him keep his males together and breed 10 month old beardies...It's hopeless

I don't keep my males together. I keep all my dragons individually. I've posted that before. If I had a tub that large I would. As for as breeding females at 10-12 months, here's a chart for you to digest. I suppose they are doing something wrong also.
Dachiu egg laying data

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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

yeah? What's your point? $$ and quantity over quality. Big name and mass quantities does not = well, I won't go there.
Post a new question at the top of the forum, ask the question..
How many people would breed at 8 mo and 10 mo?

I wrote you privately that I wasn't going to do this any more.....I thought you would handle things privately instead of keeping this going......again.....you put up a commercial breeder, a very well respected one I might ad for colored dragons, and we are again talking apples and oranges......practices of the commercial breeder don't necessarily follow suit with the hobbyist breeder....I could post back names of other small well respected breeders that don't breed until 18 months....that's not the point....let's stop this now....it had gotten way off the point

I was referring to treatment of animals by large commercial breeders, since the statement that they were treated differently got a rise...not space.
Actually Tracey said:
I stand corrected on the square footage.....I misread the middle number to be 20 not 40.....it is 21.11 square feet approx. You can easily house 7-8 females in that environment it you have sufficient basking areas and cool areas set-up. One male could possible go in replacing a female but I would not put 2 you are asking for trouble IMO......The Bearded Dragon Manual referenced the 72 x 30 size for commercial breeding facilities.....not for pet owners and hobbyist breeders....they are willing and able to accept the potential damage to one of the males or both and the potential loss as they are not pets.

To me, that sounds like she said it was big enough..

does that 2.4 mean 2 full males and the partial eaten one?

lol

When they are talking about enough room, they are talking room size enclosures like outdoor cages that many Southern California breeders have.....anything less would be tooo small.