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I've been studying the pictures of mosaic kings on Keith's site. It seems that the black ticking on the mosaics easterns have rounded bases, while the SoGa line from Enge/Still has straight edges at the base of the ticking. Am I off base or do others see the same thing?

I have also noticed that the mosaic's in general "pattern" appear to be very similar to the wide banded SoGa's. For those that have bred either of these two lines is there any consistant outcome from breeding wide band to wide band or do the offspring vary widely? Has anyone kept detailed breeding records especially with regards to pattern anomolies?

Bob Bull

and produced a bunch of dingy looking thin-banded babies.

I see the black ticking in the mosaics thats more rounded but I also see some ticking thats straight as well. It look like the adult female has the most rounded ticking almost looking like black diamons. I have the larger versions of those pics at home Ill see if I can blow some up. Kevin bred a Mosaic to his adult Echols Co. male and some of the babies came out with some odd patterns but no mosaics. He is putting together some pics and literature right now on Mosaics and I read and looked at the pics of the rough draft and its good stuff.

Keith

>>I've been studying the pictures of mosaic kings on Keith's site. It seems that the black ticking on the mosaics easterns have rounded bases, while the SoGa line from Enge/Still has straight edges at the base of the ticking. Am I off base or do others see the same thing?
>>
>>I have also noticed that the mosaic's in general "pattern" appear to be very similar to the wide banded SoGa's. For those that have bred either of these two lines is there any consistant outcome from breeding wide band to wide band or do the offspring vary widely? Has anyone kept detailed breeding records especially with regards to pattern anomolies?
>>
>>Bob Bull
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Hi Bob,

You are right, the black tipping or ticking on my very wide banded GAs goes straight across the scale. It is not a curved line. Last year I bred my very wide banded F2, aka "Frank the Tank", to two of his widest banded sisters and one medium banded sister. All clutches produced all pattern types, from very thin chains (1/2 scale in width) to medium chained (1-2 scale width) animals to a couple of wide banded (2-3 scale width) chains. All clutches also produced some broken, anomolous patterns, however out of almost 40 babies, I only hatched out one super wide banded snake, similar to poppa Franky. In fact, this snake is almost identical to his father. So similar I would think that it is a simple recessive trait, however if that was the case, I should have hatched a few more considering the numbers that were produced. I don't know, maybe the odds were just against it this year. We'll try again in '06 (I think I'm giving the GAs off this year)

However, in answer to your question, there was no uniformity to the offspring. Super wide chained to wide chained breedings didn't produce all or even mostly wide chained animals, each clutch was incredibly variable. In fact, I even got a pinstriped baby this year (never saw that before). I'll try to post some pics of the different pattern types that hatched this year so you guys can see what I'm talking about. Later.

Will

What about the f1 pair ? Didnt they have the year off last year ?

Keith
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What about breeding Tank to his Mom ? That should produce offspring with that pattern anomoly if its a recessive mutation.

Keith
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Yup, I certainly considered that. In fact if any of the GAs get busy in the spring, it will likely be FTT and his momma. Later.

Will

Hi Bob,

I'm pretty sure these snakes were all from the same clutch. This breeding was a special one because I received a baby Frank the Tank and a set of twins. One of which was the pinstriped baby. All three clutches had thin to wide banded babies and all three were sib breedings with my extreme wide banded male as the sire.

Will

This girl is gonna be a giant. She is bigger than all of the other babies even though she is getting the same maintenance diet. She is also the other black bellied female

This is a pretty typical baby. Many of them resembled this snake.

This was a nice surprise. He was one of the only set of twin easterns I have ever hatched. I've hatched many twin jungle carpet pythons, and a twin cal king back in'93, but never an eastern before. His egg mate took all of the yolk and this poor guy was thin and tiny, only 2/3s the size of the other snakes. Fortunately, he fed before his first shed and has never looked back. He is now of normal proportions. He is also a very cool shade of peach orange, very different from the others. Needless to say, he is the one holdback from '04 (LOL)

This one is awesome. The blackbelly female I got from you has a couple of the pinstripes, but nothing like that. The males coloration is fading in a similar fasion to Hillsons brute. The female is retaining her color. The 2 thin banded snakes have no ticking, just the 2 blackbellies. The female black belly and the thin band male are really out-pacing the others in growth.

There are many factors to keep records of with these snakes, I just hope we see some of these obscure traits prove out to be single gene recessives.

Bob Bull

This is the only baby out of nearly 40 that really resembles my extreme wide banded GA eastern male, the sire of all three clutches. It is this appearance that causes us to suspect the possiblity of some natural, regional infuence of other S. GA getula (goini or Floridana) in the mix of these unique kings. The wild founders look like pretty typical GA easterns, but once I started line breeding them things just went crazy. It could also be a recessive mutation and the numbers just weren't on my side last year. Hopefully future breedings will shed some more light on the matter. He is also an absolute feeding machine, just like poppa. Oh yeah, they don't gain speckling on the scales with age, the black stays black.

All very nice looking animals.

.

"they don't gain speckling on the scales with age, the black stays black."

This is what I thought of when these snakes were first posted, that while the bands look "goini" the black looks Eastern. To me this indicates that while goini influence may be at play it may be something natural that has occured over many generations. If it was due to just a few generations of manmade crossing the goini influence would show up in a more random way. In other words from a manmade cross I would expect to see some interband lightening occasionally in both the wide banded and the thin banded.

Thank you for stating so well, what I have been thinking for a long time.

Will

How's the weather in the Big "Buff?" Is it getting any better yet?
By the way, the little GA. girl is eating like there's no tomorrow! How big/long is your biggest one of the 04's currently ? Thanks!
Talk to you soon!

Zee

Just kidding, this is an '03 NJ (Monmouth x Burlington Co's)eastern hatched by Keith. He getting pretty big, hammering rat crawlers weekly. Thanks for looking and reading my ramblings.

Will

BobBull

>>Hi Bob,
>>
>>I'm pretty sure these snakes were all from the same clutch. This breeding was a special one because I received a baby Frank the Tank and a set of twins. One of which was the pinstriped baby. All three clutches had thin to wide banded babies and all three were sib breedings with my extreme wide banded male as the sire.
>>
>>Will
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"while the SoGa line from Enge/Still has straight edges at the base of the ticking."

You mean like goini?

Tony,
I had a 4-5 paragraph response for you but for some reason it vanished into cyberspace. I'll try to rewrite my thoughts tonight.

Bob Bull