Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I had gone to Lowe's to get some play sand and top soil for substrate. I had went before but the person there didn't know what I was talking about and said it'll cost me $150. She was talking about the bags that the farmers use. Well, I went to take a look for myself because a friend works there and he said there's no way. So I got there and it was only 3 bucks a bag. I got a bag of topsoil and play sand. I got home and i had just got done feeding my monitor 2 pinkies and I put him in his travel cage. I was taking his current 80 gallon out in the garage to clean it out and get all the other substrate, bark, out and everything. Well, i opened the door, got the cage off the chair because the door was far away and I couldn't carry the 80 gallon and open the door at the same time. Well I was headin to the door and all i hear is glass shattering. The freakin cage hit the side of the wall and shattered. Oh my god! I have the worst luck in the world, i swear. I finally get a suitable substrate and now i have no cage! All the cages I have are WAY to small for Artimus and I gotta go buy another! I guess it's to a petstore now....
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady

I think others will agree with me that aquariums are for fish, not for monitors. With the amount of money that you're going to shell out for an aquarium, you can build an excellent enclosure, which is better suited and designed with the animal's needs in mind.

All in all aquariums make poor cages for monitors... I would think that you would be able to build a fully functional, lightweight enclosure for probably half of what you are going to spend on another 80 gallon aquarium. There are many people on this forum who keep savs in their own enclosures, perhaps somebody will help out and post a pic for you to give you an idea...

Cheers,

Bob

Dude, I am so sorry the aquarium broke. That is tuff luck. I agree with Bob that you can build something better and bigger for a lot less money. Building enclosures is as much fun as keeping the animals.
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Ed

There are chameleons, pythons, and monitors in my jungle room.

This was easy to make, maybe more then what you need though. It cost about $120-150 to make, its nice has vents and lights and i put a small $15 air purafier that blows into one of the vents to provide some circulation, helps keep the spell down as well.

another picture with some tree limbs and heat, i have since added a shelf about half way up that extends 80% of the way accros the entire lengh of the cage.

Very nice major difference with the branches.

Can you tell me what you used to make it, deminsions and all? right now my monitor is 18 inches. I didn't like putting him in a "fish bowl" but at the time my supplies were limited and i've been wanting to build another enclosure for him, just didn't know where to start.
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady

Its 6 feet long, 4 feet tall and about 2 feet deep. It took 2 pieces of melemane, home depot cut it. I dont have the exact measurements because i did all the measuring at home depot around the window i found there. The basic cage without lights and extras was only like $70-80. When i got home with the cut wood i used silicone around the cut edges first then screwed them toghther toghether and the window just slips in the front and i screewed it in. You can cut hole where ever you want for some vents or lights. I keep the lizards in the garage now so i have 4 differnt holes on the top and he lights sit inside, it lokks kins of bad, but i had to due to the extreemly cold nights. If i was to make another one i would have laminated the bottom inside pieces with really good countertop plastic type material. The melamane wood products do not seal the wood well and eventualy water gets through and warps and slowly eats through the bottom of the cage. Thats the only thing i would do differnt.

Crocmonitor, I really like your setup with the big glass doors...Will you tell us how you did it and how long it took?
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Melissa and Corny the Corn Snake
and Monaco the Argentine B&W Tegu
and Meanie the Black Throat Monitor

It took like 2 hours to make, but i had a jigsaw to cut out the vents and a drill to make holes for the light and screwdriver to screw the wood toghther. It took maybe 2 hours to built it, maybe less because the wood was alreay cut. Home depot cut the wood, which is where i bought everything. I didnt know the measurments until i went to home depot because i didnt know the sizes of windows, i made the cage around the windows they had. fairly simply really just bring a tape measure and cut the wood to fit around the window. Windows are cheap like $20-60 depends on size. The windows are nice because they have a profession latch systems. I bought a cheap window, they have really nice white ones, but i was on a budget. I recalucated the cost, it was $95 without lights. Its heavy but i dont like the look of plywood and even if you paint plywood it doesnt look as nice in my opinion.

It is very easy to build a cage. Get at least 2 pieces of plywood, cut 1 piece in half and cut the other into four 2ftX4ft pieces. Use a drill and screw the pieces together. Cut a door the size you want. Go back to Lowes and get a piece of plexiglass and mount it on hinges on the front. Mount the basking lights on one side and put a vent on the other. There is a very basic cage for less than $100 that you can build and have your monitor in today.

Lowes can cut the wood and plexiglass for you so all you have to do is screw it together.

When the monitor grows bigger, build another cage at the size you want. By then you will have some experience building a cage and you can do research on water proofing, air circulation, etc. It is very easy and FUN.
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Ed

These heat lamps make my electric bill to high.

Ok, my mom wants to know if I should get a 75 gallon with everything(lights and stuff) for $135 or build this one. The 75 gallon has 2 openings, the top is screen.

If I could talk to you on an instant messenger it would be nice rider. ill be waitin for ur response, thanks for the help man.
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady

SCREEN TOPS ARE BAD- screen does not hold in any heat nor humidity.. By keeping an animal that can dehydrate rather easily in an open top(screen) enclosure, you will be fighting against physics 24/7..

Forget the aquarium, they are for fish, and maybe hampsters. Build an enclosure for your monitor, that will better suit him than something designed and manufactured for fish.

If you do a google search or even search the caging forum on this very site, you will find a plethora of cage designs from other people, and pointers on how to go about doing it..

As others have pointed out to you, you can have the employees at lowes and home depot do all the hard stuff for you(cutting), all you have to do is simply piece them together.

ditch the aquarium idea, and go with an enclosure for a reptile...

Cheers,

Bob
TREEMONITORS.COM

Look, i understand your views on aquariums. What they had was a reptile critter cage. They are made specifically for reptiles. Ie bearded dragons, emerald swifts, and other large reptiles. I don't have a problem with keeping the humidity or heat up in the cage, This cage is just a bigger(way bigger) version of the cage. I want to know what you think is better. I don't see the different between this and the cage that rider suggested.. I don't see hardly any different at all.. Please help me to understand.
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady

aquariums are now for monitors criter cage or not i keep all my monitors in vision cages and custom cages that me and my dad build and he hates my reptiles hel like my birds tho lol anyway dont get the 75 gallon cuz really soon your cute little savannh is not goin to fit in a 75 save so money and if u do it out of wood u can add on to it think about it i think the others will agree with me at least i hope well i hpoe to hear from u peace

Just because it is labeled as a "critter cage" and has a picture of a snake or lizard on the box, doesn't necessarily mean that it is good, or optimal for a reptile. Businesses are in business to make money. If they are able to sell something to reptile keepers, that normally sells for hampsters or gerbils, so be it.. Most products manufactured by the "reptile companies" are all gimmicks anyways... In all honesty, I have found that supplies which can be bought at home depot or lowes, beats anything that is sold out of a pet shop.. Pet stores sell leashes 'specifically for iguanas', do you think that iguanas like to be walked, or tolerate the feeling of something bound around it??? Or how about flavored water appetite stimulant for snakes..??? GIMMICKS.. Unfortunately many new and unsuspecting reptile owners buy these useless products because the pet shop tells them to, and having a lack of knowledge concerning the animals, they buy it, because it "makes sense" to them, that their pet leopard gecko needs a "special" red basking bulb, that cannot be bought anywhere else...

You can do whatever you want with your lizard, myself as well as others, are trying to open your eyes so that you can see that there are acceptable and better methods of keeping monitors, other than what you find at petco(and pay a hefty fortune for)...

Another thing, a 75 gallon aquarium is going to be insufficient for an adult savanah monitor... Keep that in mind when you have to buy him a 250 gallon aquarium when he gets bigger... think of the cost and weight of such an item...

As I said before, I recommend you look around other places on the web, as there are hundreds of tutorials for custom built enclosures, which would be more effective than an aquarium.

Good Luck

Nothing wrong with a glass cage, wood is better because heat retention really. For humidity, those top vents wont hold in to much humidity, close one up and maybe the other one partial and you will be fine. Best to keep the cage indoors. Monitors in the wild somtimes have drastic tempertures but they really shouldnt. Make part of the cage warm and the other a cool off area, the heated area should be about 100 and cool are 70ish. Monitors move around by themselves when they want heat. All monitor people have different ideas on tempeture. I have had hundreds of monitors and i really cant remember any dieing from the cage conditions. Monitors are mostly durable, tree dwelling monitors somtimes need some extra attention though. I have made giant enclosures from all glass 8x8 feet and larger. I used to get free glass from window repair places, they dump it in the trash when they replace broken sliding doors, you can get all sizes, but i think it would be best for you to buy a cage, but keep in in a more stable tempeture zone like inside your house and not outside.

Will cost you, but to you and the monitor most importantly, its worth every penny and then some. This is a cage I built for my big albig, its the smallest Id put a large monitor into really. You could adapt sizes to fit a medium or small sized monitor (4x4x8ft or small 3x3x6ft). It was alot of fun building, alot more than I had building the smaller cages, but its what they need solid top, venting around the sides, secure door that doesnt allow heat to escape, waterproof inside, stong to hold a ton of dirt, and enough room to be comfortable inside. I used 22/32nds pine plywood, lined it with FRP (fiber reinforced plastic), sealed the corners with GE silicone 2, and painted all pieces on the outside with indoor latex semi gloss paint in 2-3 layers to protect the wood. The basking lights are held to the top by chains at $2.25 for 7 or 8 ft of it per piece (holds 155lbs per strand). I mounted the cage on cinderblocks I aleady had at the new house to keep it off of the floor to prevent cold from going throught the basement floor (air temp 72 all year down there). The cage allows enough room to move, burrow, climb, and thermoregulate, also has one mean humidity gradient in it (45% on the warm end and 75-80% on the cool end, Ive never added water to the dirt it just holds that well). Heres the pics. One from construction. one from almost complete, one after the dirt etc were put in it.


Thats a 5ft by 3ft window, double layer insulated glass window. Note after this pic I placed 5 rows of 3 cinderblocks each to evenly support the weight, 3 rows were only to sit the cage onto right away and to seal the inside.


And the reason for so many 45 watt lightbulbs, the big girl herself. Since these pics Ive reduced the water dish size to cut down humidity, that and she doesnt soak in it anyways.

I had some parts (wiring, scews, eyelets, bulbs, gang plates) but it still cost me around $1000, but thats because its that big. Her last cage cost alot less to build, and it was 4x4x8ft, but the boards come that size so its easier to deal with, and less of them. This cage is 10ft long by 5ft high by 4ft wide.

I believe that you live in Alabama. I imagine it stays warm and humid there for most of the year. That is a good thing when keeping monitors.
The biggest problem with a 75 gallon Critter Keeper is that your monitor will need a lot larger cage soon. Your monitor will easily get 2, 3, 4, or more feet long very soon. You may only be able to keep him in the "aquarium" for a few months. You also need to give the guy substrate deep enough to dig and burrow in. This will be measured in feet, not in inches. You would be throwing money away with buying it.
Inside a house the temperature and humidity is not usually as high as outside. You will need to artificially keep both temperature and humidity high. If you use a screen top, the hot air will rise. This leaves the cooler air to settle in the tank. This not only wastes the heat, but the humidity will be lost also. You will be using more electricity to heat the cage, and therefore the house air conditioner will work harder to make up for the extra heat escaping the cage. Your mom will be paying for the wasted electricity.
Solid tops will keep the heat and humidity in because warm air rises. This is why you put vents low in the cage. The monitor can climb to get to warmer air or basking spots(depending on the cage).
Monitor poo stinks. The solid cage (except for vents) will keep the smell in the cage a lot better than a screen top. It doesn't take but a few minutes for the smell to escape a screen top cage.
There are a ton of reasons to build a cage instead of buying a 75 gallon critter keeper. With the money you spend on the glass cage with the screen top, you can build a cage that will be able to hold the animal a lot longer.
I have never owned a sav. but Thrasher (one of my argus) grew from 18 inches long to almost 24 inches long in 2 months. He has been growing 2 to 3.5 inches each month. I started him out in a 4 X 2 x 4 cage. With in a couple of months he had outgrown it. I put him in a 4 x 4 x 7 foot cage and I will need to double its size soon if he doesn't slow his growth. He has over a foot of substrate that he burrows in constantly.

Could someone post how much their sav. grew in 3 or 6 months?

I will send you an e-mail with my AIM name and my e-mail address. I am almost always near my e-mail.

Good Luck
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Ed

These heat lamps make my electric bill to high.

Ok, this is what I did. i bought the critter cage, i know you guys don't like it, but i had to. I had him in a 10 gallon piece of crap and it was killing him and me. I bought the 75 gallon and filled it 14 inches with the potting soil/sand mixture you told me. I have 2 LARGE sticks in there to go higher to bask if he wants. I screwed 8 holes, putting these rubber things so he doesn't get his claws stuck in them, in the holes(air still gets in/out) My room is at a constant 86 . I have a humidifier spraying every 5 hours(very light mist) to keep the humitidy up. I also have a very large water bowl for him to swim in and the heat to evaporate and keep humidity up. I covered the screen tops. I cut a whole in each for the humidifier and the basking lamp. Right when i put him in there be began to burrow. With those blasted wood chips he wasn't able to do this and i regret ever doing that to him, thanks for informing me everyone. His basking spot is a good 190F and the bottom of the cage is at 86F. On the other side of the cage it's at 110F I might cut down on how much the humidifier goes because since i put the tops on the humidity as been staying in there better than I thought. He still has his two hide-outs which he goes to frequently. One of them is near the heat-lamp and the other is on the other side, for thermoregulation. Me and my dad are in the process of making plans to build a bigger cage, not one that will house him until he is full-grown, but one that will hold him for a proper amount of time. I just had to get him out of that 10 gallon. I've been keeping him out of it, and putting him in a large tupperware bowl thing with the heat lamp about 14 inches away. But that's gone now. He isn't rubbing his nose on the sides or anything anymore. If there's anything that i kept out or any temperature/humiditiy adjustments I need to make jsut tell me and i'll make em. Sorry if i angered anyone.
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady

Ok, so you wasted your money on a 75 gallon aquarium, and you say you are going to build him another cage??? What a waste in my opinion.

bah, taking care of your pets is never a waste. If he obviously intends to build the lil guy a bigger cage before he outgrows the 75 gallon, its no harm no foul really. plus, when can you NOT use a nice large aquarium? I mean, i've already formulated plans for each and every tank i have critters in for the moment they outgrow it. I cant wait to put the fish back into the redtail tank! plus, a bit of advise, the screen lid is easily gotten around. most places will order in the glass lid that fits your tank. now this consists of a strip of removable plastic about 2 inches wide along the back, and two hinged peices of glass. depending on the aquarium there may be multiple peices. there are numberous ways to replace the plastic part, or a small portion of the plastic part with screen, creating a well ventilated, but not overly ventilated cage. if you're loosing too much heat, just "insulate" teh sides by putting things up against them, boards, draping a towel, use your imagination. the glass flip lids dont always come with handles, so sometimes you need to get superglue and something that makes a nice handle, i personally like coathooks. for lizards the heat lamsp can easily be put inside hte tanks, there are various ways to screen/bar/cage them off if your reptile gets into the lights, and for snakes a UTH or heattape or something is the best choice for this sort of tank, unless you want to replace a whole flap with screen for a lamp. tanks may not be intially designed for use with reptiles, but with just a little bit of manipulation they are easily designed into very suitable habitats. nose rubbers can be disuaded with peices of opaque material, from propped up flat rocks, to lining the edges with tile, to putting down sticky fabric tape along hte edges, and more. and a tidbit of advice for making tanks economical - watch the classifieds. i see huge aquariums for under 100 bucks everyweek, often times with full fish setups (this is some easy resale here folks) and more. i just got a 180 for 50 bucks.

what i wanna know, the 75 gallon keeps getting refered to as a critter keeper... the plastic kritter keepers? where in tarnation do you get a 75 gallon kritter keeper?
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1.3 Dogs (max, tasha, kaya, screw)
1.0 Ghost Corn (Ghost Faced Killa)
0.1 Normal Corn (Tigera?)
1.0 Yellow Rat
0.1 Central American Boa Constrictor (Achilla)
0.1 Burmese Python
0.1 Rose Hair Tarantulla (Grumpy)
0.0.1 Usambar Starburts Baboon Tarantula
0.1 White Knee / Zebra Tarantula
2 ferrets (Otis, Milo)
1.2 Emperor Scorpion
0.0.1 Nile Moniter
0.0.1 Tegu
Jack Dempsey Tank...

A Critter Keeper is a glass aquarium that is not stong enough to hold water that has a locking screen top. It would be good for a ball python or such. I agree that anyone can always find a use for one I wish I had a few of them for my pythons.

I am glad to see you did something to get him in a bigger temporary cage. You obviously care a lot about the sav. Watch those temperatures though, they may be/get to high. A glass cage can cook a critter.

I am also glad that you and your dad are going to build a bigger cage. I love building the cages. Cage building is one of the main reasons I got my very first pair of Waterdragons. I was bored and wanted an excuse to build something
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Ed

These heat lamps make my electric bill to high.

yea 190 is to high for a baskin spot try 130 to 140 ok or a little less and 110 for air temp try 95 ish ok way to high and dont get a sav to much humid cuz there from africa and dont like alot of it dont go over 40% id go 25% to 30% ok peace

Thanks for helping me guys, your advice has helped me alot. I'm sorry for dissapointing you treemonitors guy. But i couldn't keep him in that freakin 10 gallon for anymore time. Right now he is having fun walkin across everything and swimming in his bowl. I don't tend to care much for your opinion anyways because of stupid posts that you've made in the recent future. I'd like to thank Drzrider ALOT for helping me find a good substrate(thanks man). Also, SHvar thanks for the help. any everyone else that's helped me. I'll put the plans that me and my dad are going to make the cage out of on here to see what everyone thinks. We have to find a place to put it and everything. We don't have a garage or anything so, we'll have to think. heh Well, it's feeding time, thanks everyone.
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady

I just had a quick Q about monitors in Aquariums with screen tops...

What if the monitor is an arid-temperature/humidity monitor? would you still consider a screen top inappropriate?

Also, in New England, our natural humitdity in the air is often 50% indoors in the winter, and up to 85% all summer!

I'm no expert, but is an open enclosure (with possible daily misting) acceptable in this case?

I couldn't imagine trying to keep a monitor moist in arizona!

what are your thoughts?
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Melissa and Corny the Corn Snake
and Monaco the Argentine B&W Tegu
and Meanie the Black Throat Monitor

Many people fail to realize that desert animals do not like the hot, arid desert conditions. This is why most desert dwelling animals- birds, mammals, reptiles, etc.. spend the majority of their time beneath the ground in burrows, sometimes even sharing the burrow with other species. These burrows are significantly cooler and damper/moister than the conditions above ground.

Most people do not allow their animals to get to a comfortable position where humidity is favorable, because they do not offer deep soil for their fossorial monitors, or lizards in general. All too often you see people set their new pet nile monitor, or savanah monitor up in an aquarium with a screen top, with 'repti bark' for substrate. Where does this animal have to retreat to, if it wants to get away from the dry conditions of the cage? Soaking in water for hours or days at a time is in no way an acceptable substitute to compensate for lack of humidity in the wild. Many/most of these monitors will not come across bodies of water in their travels, let alone one that they can bathe in out in the open.

Just because an animal comes from the desert, does not mean that it likes the desert climate. Look at heloderms, and where they spend most of their time... under the ground... If you put a desert animal in a desert climate with no place to escape to, you will kill it, as it will dehydrate rapidly.

All of the 'skinny' and 'starving' savanah monitors that you see offered in pet shops and reptile shows/expos are not starving, they are seriously dehydrated... Sunken in hip bones, narrow tail, ribs/spines showing, are all signs of dehydration, not illness or starvation. Dehydration is the #1 reason for the high mortality rate of captive monitors, as most keepers simply overlook it. They fail to realize the true ecology of their animals..

Cheers, I hope this clears up some of the screen top confusion and dehydration issues..
Take care,

Bob
TREEMONITORS.COM

I assume your monitor under a foot long eating pinky mice?

You will be ok in a 75gal tank for a long time maybe way over a year also depends on the dimentions too, a tall 75 gal. "show" type tanks wouldnt be that great for long, but one thats not to tall can be large, maybe 4x2x2?. I think your cage is too hot, he may cook at 190. Humidity is a good thing, but to much can be bad too, if your glass is fogged up all the time, its way to much especialy for a savannah, they dont need to much humidity, this is only my opinion but i have had many of them over the last 15 years. 14 inches of substrate may be a bit thick too, maybe thats the new thing though and it may be better. I also have never used potting soil either, may need to be careful with potting soil (what could be in it?, manure, bacteria, not sure what benifit it adds)

He's ain a 75 LONG, i couldn't imagine him in a tall either. I got the potting soil/sand from Drzrider. He has his monitor(s?) in it right now and they burrow, he has pictures somewhere around here. I lowered the temp alot, i put the light a little above the tank and it cooled down pretty fast. There's never any droplets on the glass unless i just sprayed it. I've been spraying it alot lately because he's been shedding and I want to ensure a proper shed. He's in love with his burrow that he built, i don't know how big or where it goes but he's always pokin his head out and sleeping. I think me and drzrider's monitor's are cousins.. lol his does that also. Right now i have 4 thermometers and 3 hygrometer's in there in different places and they all show pretty good temps/humidity.
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1.0 Savannah Monitor - Artimus
2.0 Emerald Swift - Jesus, unnamed
1.0 Baby veiled Cham - Sir August De Winter 1-20-05 RIP
1.0 Green Iguana - King Arthur
1.0 Rose-hair tarantula - Bill
1.0 Basilisk - Adam
0.1 Water Dragon - Lady