Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am new in the Forum. Hi from Spain to all the members.
I had lost two of my males with the same illness: the borders of the lips and the cloaca began to swell and turn in a light yellow/orange color (it seems like moult remains, but it isn`t), the animals became weak and finally died.
I have seen the same thing in two of my subadult males in two different years, and in another juvenil collared from a friend.
The rest of the animals are well.
I hope that you can help me. Thank you.

sounds like some sort of bacterial infection or something , but I have no idea.

I have sent your post to a few good buddies who may have some more ideas on this, and could help.

I sure hope between us all we can figure it out. Have you talked with a Vet?
-----
-----

PHEve / Eve

Very hard to say what this could be. What other animals do you keep? What conditions were your collared kept at?

Hi, wwwwwells, thanks for your answer.
I have many collared, from different species and subspecies. Apart, I maintain Chuckwallas, Petrosaurus and true chameleons.
One of the collared was in anot so big wooden terrarium, with a good fluorescent tube and heated with a subterranean cable. The substrate was sand compacted with clay dust (I mix the sand and the clay, wet and compact the mix and let it dry in the terrarium floor). The females were all fine.
The other collared was in a big glass terrarium with a good fluorescent tube, and heated with a thermic carpet, a hot stone and a 30W focus. The substrate was loose sand. The females were all fine.
Maybe there was not enough ventilation in both terraria, but I dont`t know. I usually change the loose sand in glass terraria because of the smell.
I`m sorry for not include pictures of the sick animals, I`ll try to find some. Thanks again.

It vary hard to say what happened. Must have been some type of infection. Is it warm enough outside to give your lizrds natural sun? I believe it builds up their immune systems.

Yes, I use to put my lizards in the sun all the sunday mornings in screen cages when the weather is O.K. (Sunday is the day I don`t work and I have the morning free: the sun shines at home only in the morning). All the lizards bask and seems so happy in the sun.
I think too that it is an infection, but no one of my usual remedies work well. Thanks

some sort, It is interesting, and a shame at the same time that nothing you have tried, has worked.

How about cleaning out the enclosures and starting with fresh substrate? And are you using Washed playsand?

Do you have that available there? Its clean, used for childrens sand boxes.

And on a long shot that it may be calcium related, had you tried liquid calcuim suppliment on the males who were sick?

Just tossing things around in my little head.
Lots of collareds and more

-----
-----

PHEve / Eve

Yes, apart of the medical treatment I gave them vitamin and mineral supplements, and try with different sources of calcium (liquid too!!) when the animals got worse.
I use to change the sand when is dirty. I think it was a kind of bacterial infection: the rest of the animals are fine, without alimentary carencies. Thanks.

Hi, PHEve, thanks for your answer.
Yes, I thought in a bacterial infection, and I treated the animals with cloranfenicol and gentamicyne (orally) and terramicine cream (external) - not at the same time-. Apart, I treated with Flagyl, but both animals decayed day by day in a long time (about 2 months) and die.
I consult my vet in my town, but there are no many vets in Spain who know reptile diseases. The answer is in most cases "methabolic bone disease".
Thanks again for your help. Yar

Hi Yar...The antibiotics you mention I am familiar with, but I have not really heard of too many instances of them being used on small lizards. I am no expert in this, I just to use these two antibiotics regulary at work. What form are you offering to your lizards, and at what concentration (powder/liquid)? A more common antibiotic is Baytril, and is used commonly in reptiles.

It's been a while since I've read up on it, but I think the Flagyl is used primarily for flatworms. Have you had a fecal done on your lizards. At the least, any vet should be able to give you an indication if this is internal worms or protozoans infecting your lizard. It may be worth invetigating, as there are several people that I trust here that could tell you what types of meds and doses to treat your animals with. First get your confirmation from your vet.

Being so small, the lizards are very succesptible to renal failure when overmedicated, and can be succomb to a slow death. Give plenty of water when you are medicating and also keep them warm. That usually means putting them in a controlled temp enclosure where they will never drop below 85...even at night.

That is my only thoughts on this right now.

John E.

Hi, Johne, yes I`ve heard about Baytril but it is not sell in Spain, then I have used for years Terramycines and Cloranfenicol and usually works well with little lizards. I gave them Flagyl when the antibiotics failed: both lizards are wild caught and, even deparasitized when I got them, I thought in any possible protozoan parasitation.
Vets in Spain are not specializated in reptiles and I had bad experiences in the past with them (and my father is a vet). I usually treat myself my animals. I hope this situation changes with the time.
I agree with you with the risk of renal failure when long treatment with antibiotics, and it`s possible that it was the final cause of death (I tried to avoid it as you say: hydrating the animals and keeping them warm), but the initial problems are the ones I would like to identify to avoid more deaths.
P.S.- I`ve find one of the dead animals frozen in my freezer. I am going to carry it to a vet laboratory to study it. I`ll tell you the conclusions of the study. Thanks.

One other thing...I am serious about this too. Someone posted on here at least a couple years ago, that she lost a collection of collareds to a mysterious disease. The disease ended up being a type of herpes virus. I'm not sure how a collared would be treated for this, and it would likely be a tough diagnosis for a vet to make without substantial reptile disease knowledge.

I'll see what else I can find out about that. I think I remember who posted it.

John E.

This is just a shot in the dark, and I want to preface this with "I'm not an expert," but the first thing I would do would be to switch the heat source to all overhead heat with none coming from the bottom of the cage. If there are any hot spots coming from beneath, the lizards may not feel the need to escape it as quickly as they would if it were coming from a radiant source. Now, that's not to say your description necessarily sounds like a burn, but I'd want to rule that possibility out just to be sure.

élan
-----
0.3.0 Collareds
1.0.0 Mali Uromastix
0.0.1 Butterfly Agama
1.0.0 Green Anole
1.0.0 Chinese Dwarf Newt
2.0.0 California Newts
0.0.1 White's Treefrog
0.0.1 Fire bellied toad
0.0.1 Midland Brown Snake
2.1.0 Felines
0.2.0 Canines
1.0.0 Equine