Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Last night when a went to feed my beards, one of my females was really bloated like a balloon. I ut her in a tub of warm water. I put her back in her cage and checked on her in a half an hour and she was dead. Any ideas on what might have happened?

ONly way to be 100% positive on teh cause of death is a necropsy done by a vet. The possibilities will depend on your setup. Intestinal blockage can cause bloating, tumors, to large prey items and improper temperatures.

What is the basking temp, substrate, ambient temperatures and what were you feeding and how much/large? ALso, what age was the dragon, where did you get it (petstore or breeder?), what was it's last poo like?
-----
PHLdyPayne

i would bet it was blockage. do you use sand or 'Lizard Litter"?? because i have heard of both killing a beardie. also ladyphayne made a good note about the size of the food related to the age and size of the beardie, too large a food can block any type of lizard, beardies especially....sorry to hear that though, one of mine died and my daughter was hysterical as was i, now i know how dog and cat people feel when i used to ask them what the big deal was. like losing a member of the family....

ktmartin, please let me know who lost their beardie to a blockage from sand or lizard ltter.

I myself have lost lizards (adult and babies both) to calcisand/vitasand/reptisand. All are bad. I think the reason is, especially with calcisand, (because it is pure calcium carbonate)is that the reptile are a little calcium deficient, and eat some of the sand recognizing it as a form of calcium. Problem is, the sand is HORRIBLE and clumps and doesnt digest and blocks and BAM, one down, the rest of your collection to go.

David
-----
David and Kevin

KDRKreatures.com
Exotic Reptile Breeders - Specializing in Bearded Dragons

Email

David, if you say you personally have lost beardies to reptisand or any similar product I will take your word for it. I will also assume that you took that lizard to a vet to confirm your conclusions. As far as there being studies on the ill effects of sand or reptisand, I would like to know where they exist. I have heard plenty of stories and antidotal evidence, but I would like to read these studies myself.

Hey - Indeed I have lost dragons to similar products, including reptisand, back when I was a neophyte. I did indeed get necropsies for every one of them, all turning out for impaction by sand. I can have my certified vet, Dr. Bob Dahlhausen (Avian and Herp/Exotic vet) write something if you are interested. He sees TONS of impaction diagnoses every week. We were talking about it and he said that he sees little if ANY playsand impactions, but most all of the impactions were either some kind of name-brand pet store "lizard sand" (i.e. reptisand, vitasand, calcisand), lizard litter, or wood chips/bark. Good luck

David
-----
David and Kevin

KDRKreatures.com
Exotic Reptile Breeders - Specializing in Bearded Dragons

Email

And here is the problem with your story. Why would you go back to a product that your vet proved to you the first time was deadly? This must be one heck of a practice if he sees "tons" of these cases.

GIVE IT A BREAK. THIS IS ANECDOTOAL EVIDENCE NOT PROOF!!!

Dear lord man. I was 10 years old, I switched from Calci-sand to vitasand, I was an IDIOT. Hence why I decided that a "different kind of sand would be better" ...not. Dude if so many people have them die on it then why try it. I myself have done an experiment in my chemistry lab back in highschool and the Calcisand didnt totally dissolve in hydrochloric acid (somewhat diluted of course). If you want to be that refractory and stubborn, really, go ahead and do it. Im not going to stop you. If you merely posted thinking beforehand you would change your mind unless there is hard proof. Alright, lets have a little case here. A child goes out and drinks some new product (made for drinking) that hasnt been tested yet, and dies, and another child does the same thing with the same product, yet both children's families refuse an autopsy, and they are buried without total proof of death, yet both died instantly right after drinking it, would you let your child have the drink? I would think not, even though there isnt proof, you want to do what is best. Granted this is an extreme case, but it proves the point nonetheless. Most of the hoi polloi out there who have reptiles start with something that the pet store gave them (if they indeed got it from a pet store and didnt do any research), but so many peoples dragons drying from impaction is enough to make me, at least, turn away from those products. Having the vet diagnose hundreds of dragons, leos, and uros with impaction by sand products is proof enough for me.

David - KDRKreatures
>>GIVE IT A BREAK. THIS IS ANECDOTOAL EVIDENCE NOT PROOF!!!

-----
David and Kevin

KDRKreatures.com
Exotic Reptile Breeders - Specializing in Bearded Dragons

Email

my wife works at the only herp vet around here and they have recently, I'd say in the past 2 months maybe had a client's beardie die of choking on a piece of the shavings type of Lizard Litter, it had a big piece of it sideways in its throat and it was maybe 12 or 13 months old, as for the sand she has had quite a few dead beardies of people who use that calcium fortified sand. there are studies on the internet, (from reputable names), that have found that acid has a hard time dissolving "Calci-Sand" brand name, they have tried digestive juices of human, lizards, snakes, and some mammals, but have never found a liquid that could dissolve any type of sand in the amount of time it would take for a lizard to create a massive blockage of undigested sand it could get from a mouthfull of sand intstead of a cricket. No one should ever use sand of any type for a small-type lizard such as a bearded dragon. common misconseption is that beardies are native to sand, this is not totally true, beardies probably do come into contact with sand occasionally in the wild, but most are known to locate to area's with a more firm clayish ground. better for basking and catching food.....

So sad, such a shame, I feel badly for your lose.

Sounds as though it was so sudden, don't know whats worse sudden without warning or sick and knowing they are going to leave.

Hope your feeling better soon.
-----
-----

PHEve / Eve