Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok...my partner insisted on getting a pair of bloods. Anyways he keeps them in mulch...cypress I believe. Low and behold they now have mites...go figure???? Anyways...what do you do for a substrate? Can you heat the mulch in the oven? What temp and for how long? or what else do you use?

thanks in advance
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Michael Enriquez

Paper towels work great, and they dont harbor mites.. much much easier to clean the cage as well..
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Mulch doesn't xfer mites unless it was exposed to animals that already had them - and used mulch shouldn't be shared between cages. Much does, however, give mites more places to hide & lay their eggs, especially when crammed into corners of cages, stuck in cage door sliders, etc.

Were these bloods a recent acquisition? If so, sounds like they came with mites. They can be easy to miss @ first...at least until they turn into a full-blown infestation.

Get rid of the mulch. Thoroughly clean your cages, your snake room, your husbandry tools. Vacuum the room - even if it's a wood/concrete/tile floor. Use the brush/nozzle attachment & hit every part of the room you can. Put a couple of moth balls in the vacuum bag to kill any mites that get sucked up. Don't use moth balls as a treatment directly for your snakes - they're toxic.

Use newspaper for your substrate at least for the next couple of months while you follow routine mite eradication procedures & get the problem under control.

Even then, you may want to consider newspaper permanently. Mulch seems great in theory & many keepers have success with it, but a lot of the time it's just a pain in the butt from an effective husbandry standpoint.

Just my $.02...good luck with the mites. They suck. No pun intended.

K~

>>Ok...my partner insisted on getting a pair of bloods. Anyways he keeps them in mulch...cypress I believe. Low and behold they now have mites...go figure???? Anyways...what do you do for a substrate? Can you heat the mulch in the oven? What temp and for how long? or what else do you use?
>>
>>thanks in advance
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>>Michael Enriquez
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Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean

I agree with Kara. Plus, I use Provent-o-mite and it works great and lasts upto 30 days or so per application. Follow the instructions. Myself and others dealing with snakes recently confiscated/rescued run into mites more times than we care. The best practice is to quarantine newly acquired animals (yes even from trusted sources) for 60 days or more.

I have received shipments of various types of substrate with mites in them. These were not snake mites in this case, but did irritate the snakes. However, it sounds like you received mites with the snakes themselves.
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I had a longstanding collection of mite-free animals a couple of years ago...decided to switch to Aspen bedding as a substrate, and ended up with mites. They were a strange variety which weren't nearly as stubborn as other encounters I've had, but still put me through the rigors to clean things up.
I now use newspaper for everything, but still like the look of Aspen.

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There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Rom 8:1

Hey,
Switching to newspaper, will do much to rid and also, manage the detection of mites. However, you must first follow the advice of Kara, and wash everything, and I mean, everything thoroughly, if you are to rid the eggs that can be deposited in the least likely of sources and nooks; and that would include any other cages within the same area, as these things can migrate quite quickly for their small size.

How old are the bloods: babies, juvies, semi-adults, adults?
For serious infestations, I use a product called "NO Pest Strip". It must be however, used with lots of caution. Depending on the size of the snake in question, the pieces of Vapona must be cut to the appropriate size based on the snakes size accordingly. The other thing I do, is use a product called "Provent-a-Mite". There are many different products that claim that they are the best product for ridding mites and frankly, they just "mite" be, no pun, or maybe, but I know what this product has done for me, if used properly and the directions are followed carefully.

A thorough bath of the snakes in question, using good old fashion Ivory soap, is a good method for ridding mites on the infected snakes and any mites possibly buried under the skin. I bathe the snakes with the soap, by lathering them up with soap and warm water, and running my hands over their body till a good lather is worked up, and the rinse them off, and repeat 2 and three times per session. You might have to repeat this bath for 3-5 days depending on the problem. Use a good flash light to detect any newly hatched mites that might have gotten away undetected. For straggler mites, if spotted with the flash light, I simply squash them like the bugs they are, with my fingers; one good press and that's that. LOL!

At any rate, follow the treatment for a period of a week and if you can get your self a can of Provent, and spray the newspaper with it, in a well ventilated area, outside, or what ever works, and allow to dry for at least 15-30 minutes before placing the paper into the cage. That's it! You do not for any reason, spray your snakes with the product or any other part of their cage or housing. This method is full proof despite what others might say, and or recommend. It works, that's it.

-Angel
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"Until we lose our self, there is no way of finding our self."
-Henry Miller.

if you cant afford provent-o-mite (approx $20 per can) go to walmart and pick up a can of bedding spray. it is the EXACT same thing as provent-o-mite but costs only about $4.00 per can.
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1.1.1 Blood Python
1.0.1 Redtail Boa
1.0 Dumeril Boa
1.0 Carpet Python

Your "recommendation" can lead to potential health problems, acute or chronic with one's reptiles.

Provent-a-mite is a unique, patented product and not the same as any other brand. Our formula is not duplicated by any other company. Making this assumption can be a deadly mistake. Not only are you wrong, but your statements will cause someone to buy these other products only to potentially create health problems and even death with their reptiles (which has happened already).

This is like saying that laundry detergent and hand dishwashing liquid are the same because they are both "soap". Try to soak your snake in powdered laundry detergent and see what the "active & inert" ingredients can cause. There are different isomers of permethrin which all have different toxicity levels as well as the synergists, surfactants and other inerts, many which are toxic to reptiles that are used in these other products. None of this is or has to be disclosed on the label.

Different, more toxic isomers are widely used in many products as they pose no risk to humans, mammals or birds as a rule, but they are definitely more toxic to reptiles. Most of these products also use chemicals such as Piperonyl butoxide in their formula, which is a synergist that modifies and increases the toxicity of the active in various ways. One will find that most formulations use this and/or other synergists as it is much cheaper than the active and creates a more lethal product.

Studies have been done, and products are marketed, showing that Piperonyl butoxide as well as other chemicals are definitely toxic to reptiles, regarding the killing of brown tree and other snakes, and improve the formula to do just that. You can do a search on these products used in the South Pacific and Indonesia that use various formulas to KILL snakes. They are packaged in high pressure containers (like a wasp & hornet spray) so you can hit the snake up to 20 feet away.

These products can be absolutely lethal to snakes. Many product labels can appear to be the same or very similar as Provent-a-mite as to the generic active, but they are very different products.

There are many other chemicals in these formulas that will never be made public and since the manufacture did not make any claims to the EPA (or on the label) that the product would be safe and effective on reptiles, no such studies or proof would be required. Many of these inerts can be potentially toxic to reptiles and since no tests or studies have ever been performed, no one knows. Since all formulas are proprietary and secret, no one will ever know what is really in the can and will only be sure that the product is OK to use with reptiles if that claim is specifically on the label. This is why it is a federal offense to sell, distribute, offer for sale, promote or use any pesticide for an unlabeled use. The EPA enforces this, as using a pesticide indiscriminately for a non tested use can have deleterious effects on the site, host and environment and they do not want any such problems to develop.

Also many of these products are designed to break down quickly, which will expose the mites and ticks to a sub-lethal dose, which can lead to(and has with other species of ectoparasites)creating a resistant strain of ectoparasites that would be difficult if not impossible to eradicate!

Call these companies and ask if their product is safe to use on reptiles, and to put it in writing and see what response you get. Many people have learned the hard way that these products are not the same formula as Provent-a-mite. Often, these products can cause chronic long term problems, so one never associates the demise of the animal with a mite treatment done previously as well as outright death of the reptile.

Provent-a-mite is the only product approved by the EPA and the USDA, specifically for use with reptiles (no other product can say this). Provent-a-mite is approved for the uses stated on our label for which such an approval would not have been granted without submitting the required efficacy and toxicity studies.

The EPA requires very detailed studies done by a specific set of protocols in order to register a formula for a specific use. These studies must follow certain guidelines and conform to such certifications as GLP (good laboratory practices) or equivalent. We spent 6 years and several tests/studies before we received EPA approval for our product to be used specifically on reptiles. This was after the approximately 10 years we spent developing the formula. We had to show that Provent-a-mite didn't hurt the reptile, had efficacy results per our claims and did not pose any risk or environmental hazards when used per the directions as set forth in our submittal.

Most of our studies, like any other company, contain proprietary information, so will never be released to the public. However, there are a few completed, non proprietary studies that either have been published or will be soon.

What follows is an excerpt from a paper that will be published in the near future in a recognized scientific journal. Until it is published, we can't provide any additional information.

"...However, it was realized that different formulations of acaricides contain different ingredients in addition to the active compound, some of which might be toxic to reptiles. For example, Piperonyl butoxide, added to some formulations as a synergist, has been associated with snake mortality.
Therefore, commercially available permethrin formulations were examined and only one, a patented formulation containing 0.5% permethrin called Provent-a-mite™(Pro Products, Mahopac, New York), was found which had been prepared specifically for use on reptiles and which had been marketed in the United States for several years as an acaricide for control of mites and ticks that feed on reptiles. The clinical effects of application of Provent-a-mite™ were studied on three species of reptiles by direct application to African spurred tortoises (Geochelone sulcata) and by application to the bedding of rosy boas (Lichanura trivirgata) and green iguanas (Iguana iguana), using on each occasion 10 times the recommended dosage every fifth day for a total of six applications. Despite the excessive doses of acaricides applied, no evidence of toxic reactions related to treatment with the permethrin formulation was found in any of the three species of reptiles treated, suggesting that Provent-a-mite™ is a safe product to use as an acaricide for control of ticks on tortoises, snakes and lizards..."

People are always making claims about various pesticides and state they are OK to use with reptiles when they have no knowledge as to what chemicals are even in the formula. Even with a product that lists the same "generic" active, the active can be a different toxicity and the remainder of the formula will always be a mystery. Just because one does not see any negative outward effects after using an off labeled product, certainly doesn't mean that it is not causing chronic health problems to the animal over the long term or creating other problems, such as the potential for resistant mites or other environmental damage.

No Pest strips were once considered safe (and some people still hang on to this theory), but after many years of our reptiles being guinea pigs, it was found that they are harmful, both acutely and chronically. Some of our leading vets, including Douglas Mader as well as several zoos have confirmed this. Unless the product has been specifically tested and approved for use by the USEPA, no one can state whether or not it can be harmful to a reptile.

Provent-a-mite, when used as directed, only costs about 50 cents per application to treat a 2' x 4' cage and does not require the time and expense to repeatedly cleaning and disinfect your cages as other methods do. When used as a preventative treatment to stop potentially disease carrying mites and ticks before they can infect and infest one's animals, it only costs about 5 cents for the average cage. It has an average shelf life of approximately 7 years.

Bob @ Pro Products
Pro Products

okay.....whatever.
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1.1.1 Blood Python
1.0.1 Redtail Boa
1.0 Dumeril Boa
1.0 Carpet Python