Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys, i was considering buying a Leucistic rat snake and was wondering how big do they grow to? I dont want a snake much bigger than 3 feet. Also, how are they behaviourally (friendly, mean, good eaters, not good eaters, etc.) Finally how big of a Vivarium would i have to build (dimensions) to house one? Thanks so much for your help!
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-Doug Daly

Leucistic Texas (or Black) ratsnakes will readily exceed 5 feet and some will exceed 6 feet. So if you are wanting to stay under 3 feet, an obsoleta ratsnake isn't going to work out for you.

There are ratsnakes that stay under 3 feet, but they are harder to find in captivity. Why do you have this 3 foot limitation? Have you ever seen a four foot ratsnake? It isn't a particularly big snake.

The general rule for cage size is that the snake's length should be equal to the length the width of the cage. So a 6 foot snake should be in a cage that is roughly 4 feet x 2 feet, or the equivalent.
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Chris Harrison

If you are so concerned about size, the leucistic texas rat snake will TYPICALLY be smaller than a leucistic black rat snake. I believe the longest black rat on record is 96 inches. However very few will actually ever get that large.

But I agree, have you ever seen a 4-5 foot snake? They're not exactly big. I'm also curious as to why you have a 3 foot limitation.
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

Thanks for the info guys, i just was hoping to convince my parents into letting me get one and i didn't want to get a big one, i guess 4-5 feet would be ok but more than 5 is kinda big, how thick do they get? Anyways, any body know of specific leucistic breeds that dont get over 5 feet in length? Thanks alot guys!
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-Doug Daly

If you want a "white" snake that is smaller than a texas rat, I would suggest looking at some pictures of snow corns. They still show some patterning, and usually get some color around the throat area as they mature, but they are a very pretty, mostly white snake...Check them out. They ARE ratsnakes, by the way.

As the others have suggested, a four (or five)-foot ratsnake is a MUCH smaller animal than, for example, a python of similar length. I use the python as an example since so many look at the ball python as a good snake that does not get too large.

A ratsnake would, indeed, be a great starter snake. And corns are inexpensive, easy to care for and on the small size. While lots of folks seem to want to "rush" them to their adult size, if you feed it modestly you will have a good medium-sized snake for some time. Good luck convincing the parents. Education is the answer. (First educate yourself...Then educate them). A trip to a local reptile show would be in order for you and your Dad and/or Mom. Duffy

I have been doing research for 2 weeks on a snake to get, and now i have my heart set on this one. By the way thanks Duffy for your help, do you know how Thick they get? Anyway i asked my Mom today and she said she'd have to think about it (which is usually no) she said she just doesn't like snakes, i told her it is easy to take care of, i would keep it in my room, i would pay for it etc. Any other ideas? Also, i read that they only eat once every two weeks?!?! is this true or is it one week? Thanks alot!
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-Doug Daly

Doug, i just got a Leucistic Texas Rat that's absolutely gorgeous. I got her as a yearly so she's still rather small. I saw her father and he was stunning. A beautiful pure white snake that looked like plastic. Must have been around 6ft. The thickness i'd say was about 2 1/2 inches across the top. She's got a great temperment and even greater appetite.

If you're into white and 6ft is too big, you may be interested in a blizzard corn snake.

Sounds like a cool snake. That is why i want one of them and not a Blizzard Corn (ive looked into em) but the reason i want one not exceeding 5' is because i dont have room for a vivarium that large! Thanks guys for your help on this topic!
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-Doug Daly

I love those rat snakes magnificent looking but you must admit as a whole they are bad tempered snakes even if gotten as babies.
My friend has two and they are incredible looking she keeps them together in a 12 foot high 10 foot wide enclosure with branches,shelves .
Had them as babies and both 4 yrs later still biters tho she rarely if ever handles them anymore but again magnificent looking.

Not to say anything bad... but i'd reccomend to do more research before you went and bought one. Yes, this forum does have a LOT of good information on it, but I would go to google and do some searches also. This will help you out immensely.

Getting your parents to let you have a snake will be the easy part. Getting them to let you keep snakes in the freezer... that's the challanging part
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

Thanks once again for your help. I have been researching snakes in general for 2 weeks now. Trying to find the right one for me. I originally was going to get a Flame or Red-Sided Garter until i saw a Leucistic one on Scott Felzer's Website. I knew then that i wanted a Leucistic Eastern Garter but Scott informed me that they wouldn't be around until 2006. So i began to research Leucistic Snakes (i posted about 6 messages on leucistic in various forums) and found the amazing Leucistic Texas Rat. I just recieved an e-mail from the owner of SerpentsDen.com about his Leucistic Texas Rats. I plan on getting a male b/c they tend to be smaller than females. He said a 30 Gallon Aquarium would be fin (i think i have one of these lying around). So once i convince my parents to let me get one ill be all set. My mom however doesn't like snakes (even though she is a bio teacher for high-school) i have had a fascination with them as far as i can remember. So thanky ou guys for your time and help in this.

PS- Crtoon- did u mean Brumation when u mentioned about keeping em in a freezer?

Thanks Everyone!
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-Doug Daly

I think he meant to say the mice that will be in your freezer. It always freaks people out to pull out a big bag of frozen mice...

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0.0.1 Amel Motley Corn (Cosmo '03)
0.1 Baird's Ratsnake (Sugaree '04)
1.0 White Oaks Grey Rat (Tennesse Jed '04)
0.1 IJ Carpet Python (Cassidy '04)
1.1 Shepherd mix (Dylan 5yrs, Porter 10 months)

>>I think he meant to say the mice that will be in your freezer. It always freaks people out to pull out a big bag of frozen mice...

Especially when you get out the blender next.

deg

Thanks for clarifying that! By the way that's a nice looking snake! Where can you buy a big bag of frozen mice? How much would it cost? Once again thank you!

PS-I read that Leucistic Texas Rat Snakes can be "Fiesty" and nip alot. Is this true?
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-Doug Daly

I buy all of mine at the Indianapolis reptile show. I don't know where you are but you can check the events section of this site and find one close to you. For reference I pay $20 for 50 mice which is really cheap. There are a ton of vendors online also that you can order from, but you don't have to pay shipping if you go to your local show. Plus if there is one close you will be able to go there and get your snake and be able to actually handle it before you buy it.

As far as the nippy part, if you handle your snake regularly it should grow out of this phase. All snakes are different and I think the Texas rats have gained a bad rep for some reason. You shouldn't have any problems.

Here is Sugaree

and Tennesse Jed

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0.0.1 Amel Motley Corn (Cosmo '03)
0.1 Baird's Ratsnake (Sugaree '04)
1.0 White Oaks Grey Rat (Tennesse Jed '04)
0.1 IJ Carpet Python (Cassidy '04)
1.1 Shepherd mix (Dylan 5yrs, Porter 10 months)

Rat Snakes generally grow to 4 feet but some will get to be 5 feet and possibly a little more. This really isn't all that big, in fact these are one of the best average sized starter snakes available. A snake like this can easily fit and do well in a 50 gallon terrarium or a cage 4 feet long, 2 feet wide, and 2 feet high. They generally are good snakes for temperament, some may be a bit nippy when they are young but they usually calm down as they get older and with handling. If you have a 3 foot limit, a very good snake to start with would be a rosy boa. They are very docile snakes and grow to about 3 feet. Either one of these snakes would be great for you. Good luck.

Thank you, you just answered a question i just posted a few seconds ago! By the way the guy who owns the pet shop im oping to buy him at told me a 20-30 gallon aquarium would be alrigth for one. I know i have a 30 gallon around here somewhere, is that ok?

Thanks
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-Doug Daly

My Leucistic Rat is just over 5 feet and likely not done yet, the female is just four feet right now, but they're slender and a great handling size.

How big of a setup do you have em in? And when you baught them, were they babies? Thanks Alot!
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-Doug Daly

3 feet, then I would recommend getting a corn. As it is the smallest of the rats and usually averages around 3.5' - 4'. The rest of the rats all will reach 5' easily and some even hitting the 6' and 7' mark!

Here are some of the most common rat snakes in the hobby and the average size as an adult:

Black rat snake - 4.5 -5.5, 7' specimens are not uncommon and the record is 101" Color is variable with many morphs available.
This is my KY locale black rat..

And this is my MO locale black rat...

Yellow rat snake - 4' - 5', record length just over 90". They are also available in many morphs.
My normal yellow rat snake...

Everglades rat snakes - Same size as the yellow and also in a few morphs.
My normal everglades...

Gray rat snake - average between 4' - 5' and can attain lengths of 72" and the record is 84". The white oaks phase is the most sought after coloration of the gray.
My white oaks phase gray...

Texas rat - average between 42" - 72" and the record is just over 7'. The texas rat has the stigma of being the most aggressive and the worst biter of the rats. Although I think this is just a false presumption. All rat snakes have the potential to bite, given its mood and personality.
The texas rat comes in lots of morphs as well.

Corn snake - Average adults range from 18" - 44", but the record is 72"! The corn comes in the most morphs available and is the most frequent bought snake as a beginner snake. There are a multitude of color variations and patterns available for the corn, and this is why it is so popular. It is relatively cheap as well.
My normal KY locale corn...

Hope this helps and good luck on what ever you decide on getting.
Brian

>>Hey guys, i was considering buying a Leucistic rat snake and was wondering how big do they grow to? I dont want a snake much bigger than 3 feet. Also, how are they behaviourally (friendly, mean, good eaters, not good eaters, etc.) Finally how big of a Vivarium would i have to build (dimensions) to house one? Thanks so much for your help!
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>>-Doug Daly
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

MILKS
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

A few thoughts for you on your leusistic. i have had them for several years and they are not only a beautiful snake but they make excellent pets. They do eventually get to exceed 5' but as other persons have reported, unless you straighten out the animal and measure him/her, it would be hard to notice a significant difference. In my experience, females tend to be slightly smaller, but it this is my observed opinion with less than 10 adult texas ratsnakes so there is much room for descrepancies.

As far as demeanor goes, I handle-select my texas ratsnakes and look for babies that I can pick up and handle (preferably from an owner that has NOT handled them much if at all) and that are calm and don't nip. I figure that way when it is handled often or semi-often, it will have much less tendency to be aggressive. Remember, it is a rat snake, but an occasional nip can happen from everything from corn to milk to kingsnakes. The key is to choose one that seems more calm when handled and plan on picking it up and handling it more often. I have 6 right now and two males that I have are more aggressive and I am careful when I handle them as they will have a tendency to bite. One is a male het breeder that I never handle and he is very aggressive and I blame that more to the fact I rarely if ever handled him. The other I picked up at a show and he was already a subadult.

As far as telling your mom about putting mice in the freezer or even telling her it COULD EVENTUALLY EXCEED 7' (which again, if it does, your mom will be long past her worries by then) is setting yourself up for failure. For now, just plan on buying a pinky or fuzzie every 7 to 10 days and feeding him/her. I would not go longer than 10 days and any given routine for that animal. Also, train your animal early to eat thawed frozen mice as when the mice get older, they can severly injure and even kill a snake. I have juvenile tiger ratsnake right now that has had two trips to the vet because a "fuzzy" bit him and it caught his saliva gland (probably not the technical part!)
Good luck!
Brian