Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys, I'm just going to give you some background. I love this site and have been reading on it ever since my girlfriend got a few frogs about 2 months ago. She has a small GTF and a baby Australian WTF. She has those in a 20gal long with (eeek!! don't flame!) 3 hermit crabs. She has half of it water with a waterfall and then a beachy area for the hermit crabs. She has 2 small goldfish in the water with 2 small Red Clawed crabs.

We built it together and it is quite an amazing tank. I know you guys are extremists with the frogs, but trust me these 2 frogs are small and extremely happy. They look great, very bright green and eat well. I know what you guys recommend for the whites and no multiple species, but they are happy and we've had nothing but success with this setup.

I don't have a good picture of the setup, but I am attaching these two cute pictures of the hermies and the WTF I named Norman! (And yes, the pictures are faced the right way up! The hermit crabs love to climb on the cocunut fiber on the background of the tank!)

You can see how cute my WTF

Anyway I have grown quite fond of tree frogs and want to get some of my own. I ideally want to buy a hex tank, although I'm not sure what I'll be able to find that I can afford. I'm hoping I can get atleast a 30gal, but I love some of the Terrariums I've seen on here and they are mostly in a 60gal hex. I'm in my 1st year at Kansas University so I'm hoping to do this project over the summer (or whenever I find a nice hex ank!) so I can have it in my apartment next year.

Just wanted to show you guys the pictures and tell about my girlfriend's setup that we built together. I hope you guys trust that all those animals really are happy together.

Hey there!
I really like your tank set up, and your kritters seem pretty happy in the photos. Your WTF is certainly cute!

Be prepared, people will tell you that you shouldn't be keeping them together like you are. However if they have been co-habitating nicely and no one is getting injured, then it shouldn't be that bad. In the wild, animals aren't separated by species like we tend to do in captivity, so it should be possible for certain different species to tolerate each other.

Just let us know if anything does go wrong with your community so that we know to warn others in the future.

Besides that, very cool setup and very cool WTF!
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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
2.1.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo, Chabo, and Mushu
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
5.0.0 Betas: Ghost, Fruity, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

"" In the wild, animals aren't separated by species like we tend to do in captivity, so it should be possible for certain different species to tolerate each other.""

No, animals in the wild arent seaporated like we do in captivity, they are seporated by Thousands of Miles, Oceans, Islands and countless other "natural barriers". yes its ok to mix species found in the EXACT same area in HUGE inclosures...but thats about it, especially so if you are new to the hobby. and I dont recall seeing any Australlian frogs in North America (where we get GTF's) or at the Beach (Where we see the hermit crabs)

1) I know nothing about hermit crabbs, so i dont know what will happen between them and he frogs. but i can assume the hermit crabs need some salt water or some kind of suppliment that is not good for frogs.

2) the WTF may be small now, but they get big, and they will try to eat the GTF who will stay small.

3) to many animals in a 20g

4) GRAVEL!!! the frogs will likley ingest it (especially the whites, theyre not very "stealthy" and it can be very bad for digestion

5) I know nobody wants to hear this, but you have got to realize that there is a difference between THRIVE and SURVIVE. The "beach" set up for crabs isnt the Optimum set up for the Whites, or the GTF.

6) my suggestion (take it or leave it)

if you are interested in getting into the hobby:

take to 20G and turn it into a planted tank (planted tanks, look awsome and can be very rewarding!)for the whites, maybe get another one, do some MAJOR research and think about breeding (need a bigger set up for that..rain chamber ect...can be constructed cheaply i'm very willing to send you some plans ect..)

get the carbs a 5-10 gallon tank ($10 at your LPS) for themselves, and make sure the set up is Optimum. (could be already...like i said, i dont know crabs)

Get the GTF another 5-10g, put a water dish and a pothos (plant) in it, it makes for a very simple nice planted tank, if the tank is big enough consider getting another frog.

Finally, REmember: we are here to help, I dont hold it against anyone for mixing the wrong species, if you didnt know any better!!! Keep asking questions!!!!

PS.. also unless you keep it moist enough coconut fiber pannels can suck the moisture from frogs if they sit on it to long.

Get a
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0.2.0. Leo
1.1.0. WTF
0.1.0. Irish Setter
2.1.0. Holland Lop Bunnies
1.1.0. House Cats
Too Many Fish!

Check out my site ~ www.freewebs.com/stephsgeckos

All good points. The Crabs are land hermit crabs and can be found in the same range as the GTF. They are not native to Australia, however, so as I had mentioned, it is best to remove one frog for the safety of the smaller specie and that one frog should be the White's.

I think the thing to consider more than mixing creatures is what kind of creatures to mix. I imagine that that these two species will live together without a hitch because a) the frog will not consider these crabs as prey. and b) the crabs are foraging animals that like to scavenge rather than hunt other living creatures.

If you do consider mixing species it is always best to consider these sort of things. What are the temperaments of the creatures I am mixing? What are the environmental conditions that each species require? Are these animals from the same region on the planet?

If you consider all this you can put some species together with little cause for concern. Even so -- the reason why most folks should not do this is that (unlike in the wild) the animals usually do not have sufficient space to avoid eachother and problems can occur because of space constraints.

In this case I don't think that is likely though as these two species really have little or any concern for eachother.

Good luck

Steve

I just read the entire post. I suggest removing one of the two frog from this enclosure. The GTF will eventually be on the White's menu. They eat anyting big enough to fit in their mouth and will outgrow the GTF in no time. Odds are that he will in time eat that GTF.

Thanks all for the comments.

The hermits stay on the sand all day long and only venture out at night to climb on the rock waterfall (that you can't see in the pics) and they go down to the water and drink and swim and clean their shells. Land Hermit crabs are awesome animals and very cute and low maintainence. They also don't need any salt in their water, nor do the other Red Clawed crabs. The crabs that DO need salt are the Fiddler crabs, the ones that have 1 big claw.

To relieve all you we are going to take the WTF out at some point.

This does raise a question for me and my future setup.

How fast do baby Australian WTFs grow? Let's say you buy a 1" long WTF. How long until it is 2 or 3" and can eat other frogs (RETF, GTF, barking) ??

I really like the WTF and although I don't want them to eat anything they shouldn't, I can't see that happening when they are babies. The ones at petco, some of them are reall really small.

So I guess my questions are:

1) How fast do they grow? Do they go from 1" to 3" in 6 months? a year?

2) Once they do get too big, and you can't keep the WTF anymore (not interested in more tanks), could you sell or donate to a petstore like Petco or Petsmart? Or could you sell online or on this site? Basically how easy is it to get rid of a WTF once it gets too big for your setup?

Thank you. I am preparing questions that I will make in another thread about my future tank. I'm going all out for a 60gal hex

Hehe, what area of the country do you live in? I'm in California, if you live out here I'll take your WTF once it's grown off your hands. I think they're cutest when they're grown up and chubby!
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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
2.1.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo, Chabo, and Mushu
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
5.0.0 Betas: Ghost, Fruity, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

Dude...is that a pine tree???? please tell me you didnt take a branch from outside and stick it in there...I'm not going to start on the dangers of pine sap in the water.....
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0.2.0. Leo
1.1.0. WTF
0.1.0. Irish Setter
2.1.0. Holland Lop Bunnies
1.1.0. House Cats
Too Many Fish!

Check out my site ~ www.freewebs.com/stephsgeckos

Yes it is from inside. I soaked and washed it in hot water before putting it in there. I am positive there is no actual sap on there (but I'm sure you will enlighten me on how it still bleeds sap).

I haven't had a problem for 3 months. The pine isn't in the water, its just sitting in the corner on the rocks. I do have a filter for the water (filters before shooting up to the waterfall).

The pine is just for the hermies anyway. The frogs don't go over there anymore - that was just the first day we put them in there.

But no harm in hearing the dangers of pine sap in water. Enlighten me, if you will.

Hehe, I told you, we got flamey-flameyed for the multiple species.

But there is one thing I must retract. I focused on the hermit crabs and WTF living together. I really can't imagine a WTF, even fully grown, trying to eat a hermit crab. However, a GTF and a WTF are a different thing. Even I don't recommend that, WTFs are just too voracious of eaters, and could consider them on the dinner list. Not now, but have you seen pics of WTFs when they're older? Think of them as Frogzilla! If WTFs can eat pinkie mice, they can eat (or try) a frog smaller than them. The only species of frogs I recommend mixing is Indonesian and Australian White's Treefrogs, since they are super similar in almost every aspect.

When my WTFs were babies, and hunting on the ground for crickets, every once in a while they'd go for the same cricket and lunge at the same time and Wabo would usually end up with a mouthful of Cabo's (who passed on a while ago) foot as well, much to her distress since she'd start squawking and pulling it out. Since they've grown they haven't done that as much, but you can see how accidents could happen. They were the same size too, but a smaller frog versus a hungry WTF...

Anyways, just something to consider for the future, I doubt it would happen soon.
Good luck!

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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
2.1.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo, Chabo, and Mushu
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
5.0.0 Betas: Ghost, Fruity, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

Yes I do know about this and have read this. That is why we picked out a baby white He is about the same size as the GTF and we've been watching them closely. They seem great together and we haven't had any problems. However we do watch them closely day to day and during feeding time to look out for any warnings or problems. Of course when the baby white gets too big and gets a bigger appetite we will move him to a different tank or something.

The baby white doesn't seem to have a huge appetite. The GTF seems to eat more than he does

My girlfriend says they are friends

And I'm in Lawrence, Kansas, at KU

Aww, I'm at UCLA. Ah well, I'm sure somebody would take him though, they are irresistable!
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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
2.1.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo, Chabo, and Mushu
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
5.0.0 Betas: Ghost, Fruity, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt