Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I heard about dusting with paprika, can anyone tell me why?
Thanks

color enhancer.
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Josh Willard
www.joshsfrogs.com

just normal supermarket paprika?
Can this be used for tinc's?

Normal supermarket paprika works just fine. It enhances the orange/red spectrum in frogs because it if full of carotenes which are stored in the lipids of the skin and fat cells. Part of these are converted to vitamin A, but only as required, so they will not overdose vitamin A. There may be some other properties that serve as a color enhancer, as well.

Paprika is a actually the powder from the dried fruit of a mildly spicy red pepper. I accidentally dusted with hot cayenne pepper once when the cans got mixed up, and the frogs loved it. While this would serve the same purpose as a color enhancer, I was afraid to repeat this accident as a deliberate experiment, since it's hot as blazes to my own taste. It certainly seemed to whet their appetites, however.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Wow, that's pretty interesting - never heard of that before.

As an aside, has anyone ever tried to use paprika somehow with reptiles? You know, feed it to the mice or inject the mice, etc? Just a random thought.
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::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

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My Growing Zoo (Herps coming soon!):

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.1 WC Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides blue Peru)
3.3 Pygmy corydoras (C. pygmaeus)
2.0 Endlers' Livebearers (P. sp. Endlers)

snip "It enhances the orange/red spectrum in frogs because it if full of carotenes which are stored in the lipids of the skin and fat cells. Part of these are converted to vitamin A, but only as required, so they will not overdose vitamin A. There may be some other properties that serve as a color enhancer, as well."

Actually, in anurans the caretenoids in the paprika can be stored in a cell called a chromatophore. They are actually not stored in the lipids of the skin and only excess above and beyond the storage of the chromatophores ends up in the fat, this is not common.
In some anurans (including dendrobatids) red (and other pigments) are also the result of a group of compounds known as pterins which are also stored in the chromatophores. These cannot be intensified through the feeding of caretenoid pigments.

(For a review of this I direct you Amphibian Biology, The Integument, 1994, Surrey Beatty and Sons)

As a further comment, not all amphibians that lose the red color in captivity will develop red color when fed on the caretenoids in items like paprika. The actual reason for this is to my knowledge unknown at this time, but I suspect that the use of caretenoids that are found in arthropod skeletons may be more effective.
Some of the coloration is also caused by the reflection of light from crystals in the xanthopores, the light reflected is the light that has often passed through the chromatophores. This means that the caretenoid stored in the chromatophores can affect this light.

As far as I know, there has been no documentation of an ability to enhance red pigments in reptiles although yellows can be enhanced through caretenoid supplementation.

Ed

HUH?

>> I was afraid to repeat this accident as a deliberate experiment, since it's hot as blazes to my own taste. It certainly seemed to whet their appetites, however.

Capsacian is the "heat source". It seems to only affect mammals. Parrots will eat habaneros without a problem. Seen it with mine eyes.

It seems from your description that it did not affect the frogs at all!
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

People come up with the oddest ideas. Ever talk with a dog breeder? I'd say only a fraction of these "wives tales" have an ounce of trueth, and even then, usually only an ounce.

I'd like to see more info on this out of curiousity, and possibly some higher profile dart keepers opinion. As for now; my personal opinion is to take the info with a tad of salt

That was some interesting stuff.. How many people actually use this, and are the affects measureable?

Would this mean that the diet could be lacking in other areas? Do supplements that target arrow frogs contain these extra caratenes (spelling?)

If you go over to dendroboard.com there are a couple of threads discussing this which will give you an idea on how prevelent it is.

Ed

I really wouldn't say color ENHANCER when its actually used on CB frogs to gain the wild coloration they are lacking, and not enchancing the color beyond the natural capacity, just beyond the duller CB animals we are used to seeing.

Of the three general pigments in a frogs skin, Xanthrophores are the ones responsible for most of the reds, oranges, and yellows. Xanthrophores are based off caretaniods and frogs that have most of their coloration (like tricolors and red pumilio) from these Xanthrophores and if they don't get enough of the caretinoids then their color ends up pale or mucky looking, and very different from the wild type (could these differences cause breeding problems in CB animals? Think about it). The most common (and safe) form of supplimenting these frogs is with beta caretine thats found in peprika.

This form of supplimentation is mostly for the redder frogs like tricolor and pumilio, but I believe most of our darts could benefit from it. Even the average CB cobalt tinc pales in comparison to its WC counterpart, which is a clue we are missing something.

In contrast, there are pigments caused by iridiphores (blues, greens most often) that don't need any supplimenting at all (and also can't really be affected by supplimenting) due to the nature of the iridiphore. Whats also interesting is that iridiphores actually can produce reds, oranges, and yellows as well, but they are more metallic, as seen on most thumbnails. In this cause supplimenting won't help color, and its not needed as CB intermedius for example are just as colorful as their WC counterparts with their glittery, metallic iridiphore produced orange.

i've heard that blues and greens can be increased by supplementing with spirulina... but you said that they can't be supplemented for... is there any evidence suggesting that spirulina could increase the color of let's say an azureus with a fading nose or something comparable... thanks-paul

snip "Of the three general pigments in a frogs skin, Xanthrophores are the ones responsible for most of the reds, oranges, and yellows. Xanthrophores are based off caretaniods and frogs that have most of their coloration (like tricolors and red pumilio) from these Xanthrophores and if they don't get enough of the caretinoids then their color ends up pale or mucky looking, and very different from the wild type (could these differences cause breeding problems in CB animals? Think about it). The most common (and safe) form of supplimenting these frogs is with beta caretine thats found in peprika."

I'm guessing when you say three general pigments you are referring to red, yellow and blue?
Xanthopores do not always have to contain carotenoids, they also contain pigments know as pteridines (sometimes called peterins) (and these can also be present with carotenoids but can also be by themselves). These pigments can also be yellow or red as well as other colors.
Beta carotene may not supply red color to animals that are normally red as beta carotene is a yellow caretenoid.

snip "In contrast, there are pigments caused by iridiphores (blues, greens most often) that don't need any supplimenting at all (and also can't really be affected by supplimenting) due to the nature of the iridiphore. Whats also interesting is that iridiphores actually can produce reds, oranges, and yellows as well, but they are more metallic, as seen on most thumbnails. In this cause supplimenting won't help color, and its not needed as CB intermedius for example are just as colorful as their WC counterparts with their glittery, metallic iridiphore produced orange"

Is the red/orange/yellow the result of the iridiophores or is it the result of pteridines in the xanthopores? In general the literature points to it being from the xanthopores. If it cannot be intesified through the use of carotenoids then it is mostly likely to be derived from pteridines.
Colors like greens are typically the result of light passing through the yellow chromatophore layer where the blue wavelengths being reflected from the underlyong iridiopore layer resulting in the green color.

It may be possible to influence the iridiopores and the pteridines through selective dietary supplements as for example melanistic amphibians can be produced by feeding them allopurinol. It will all depend on what color pteridines are in the xanthopore layer. IF the frog has a yellow xanthopore layer comprised of pteridines then withholding carotenoids will not affect the color reflected from the lower layer.

For a more through review I refer anyone interested to Amphibian Biology, The Integuement, Heatwold, 1994, Surrey Beatty and Sons Publishing (I think Herplit has a copy).

Ed

Could paprika be used to enhance the yellow & orange in my albino pacman frog, or is this just for dart frogs?
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2.1 Corn snakes Snake Plissken, Jack Skellington & Abby
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.3 leos, Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo (Indy)
0.1 Pacman frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
1.1.3 firebelly newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 cats Gus & Mena

It seems like arrow frogs are a very common pet among amphibian enthusiasts anyways, so when does it become plausible to begin raising south american ant colonies? I realize this would probably bring the poison back into the hobby but would that be much of an issue? Either way, it would be worth it if it would mean our animals where fed the food they co-evolved to need. It seems like where trying to feed maple leaves to kuala's.

That likely will never happen as you get into USDA & APHIS issues with importing exotic ants. You currently cannot even transport throughout the US many species of ants or at least queens as they may become invasive/pests, etc...

There are some people that collect some of the native and introduced ant species and feed them to their frogs. The ones they use are of the Myrmecinae subfamily (such as Tetramorium)

Ed

Collecting local ants is one thing but importing exotics colonies is another. Even bring native queens across state lines is a violation of various APHIS regulations depending on the species...

joeysgreen-- I love your thinking, but can you imaging the even more complicated problems of raising and keeping tropical ants? Not the normal ant farm, especially in SE Idaho.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

makes them taste better??
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1.1 Kenyan Sand Boa adults
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boa 2003
0.1 Rubber Boa
0.2 Eastern Hognose Snakes
2.2Western Hognose Snakes
1.1 Womas
1.0 African Hedgehog
1.0 Sulcata
1.1 Leopard tortoises
1 Pleco
2 Silver Dollars
3 Bosemian Rainbows
1 Cory Cat
1 Upside Down Catfish
2.0 Fire Guramis
1 silver arrowana
1 sentenal bichir

uhh... I think that is it.