Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Now am I the only one wanting to see more of these snakes? Since I've been reading these boards I havent read anything about Angolan Ball Pythons. I seen the pictures of NERD's and I love them. Im not good with genetics, but if you could get some of the morphs mixed in with the hybrid that would be awsome. I just thought I would share my thoughts on the matter.
Thanks,
James

Why do we even need a Ball/Angolan hybrid?

Is there not enough genes/morphs in python regius already??

Hell, maybe everyone should figure out all of the genetics of our current morphs before we consider 'muddying' the genetic waters with Angolan hybrids??

What's to stop someone from selling animals descended from an angolan hybrid as aberrant BALL PYTHON albinos? Aberrant pastels, aberrant spiders or whatever the morph may be.

What's to stop someone from selling the hybrids as some new wild-caught morph??

I keep a few balls, but concentrate most of my efforts on my beloved cornsnakes. Quite honestly, every cornsnake I add to my colony is possibly a descendant of a captive intergrade with a Great plains rat snake or a desendant of a jungle corn (california king X cornsnake).

Jungle corns are the most common corn hybrid available. They are available in normal colouration, amelanistic, anerythristic, snow, ghost, motley, etc, etc. Some of the 3/4 corn, 1/4 king animals look close enough to a pure cornsnake that they could be easily sold as an 'aberrant' corsnake to an unsuspecting/uninformed buyer.

And I'm just talking about cornsnakes, ranging from $25-500 or so.

Now, how would you feel if you bought a ball python for, oh let's say, $2500 and come to find out later that the breeder you bought from keeps or breeds angolan hybrids. Could be that the animal you bought isn't a pure ball python. The breeder could say it's pure, but how well do you trust him/her?

So, hypothetically, you have a hybrid albino. Do you keep it as a pricey pet and take a $2500 loss or do you breed it into your Ball lines and sell the offspring as pure or hybrids?

Just imagine you payed a little extra for a high end morph (gen. stripe, lesser platinum, etc,) because it has a unique aberrancy that, unbeknownst to you, is the result of hybridization or angolan blood in the lines.

Take a $25,000-35,000 loss or breed it and keep hush hush about its ancestry??

For some hobbyists, myself included, it's as simple as 'never buy from anyone who deals in any hybrids.'

Just my 2 pennies.

BTW, you might not see much talk of the angolan hybrids on this forum because not everyone who keeps balls (myself included) likes them. Try the 'Hybrid Discussion' forum.

BB

Well, since there have only been two breeders to have ever produced this particular hybrid! I really do not think that there is going to be much of a problem with impure bloodlines in collections. Like you said BB, they have been doing it with Colubrids for a very long time as well as Diamond Pythons and Carpets and people have adapted and eventually came to like them, just like the Carpondros. Since I know where all of my Hybrids are, I really am not that worried about having to keep it secret. Although the original question does belong in the hybrid forum.

Thanks,
Wyatt

who is to say there are only two breeders who have done it....two that you or i know of yes........and who is to say a lot of what we know today as "purebred" in any animal or species may not be a hybrid from years back who have now established themselves as to be what "we" all claim they are......many animals ranges overlap and if they CAN breed chances are eventually they will.......it happens in the wild and its not as evil as so many people say......(not you guys).......but in general ....its an issue where most will NEVER change their minds whether they are for it or against it.......i dont do it but i dont "hate" those who do.....to each his own and its not like they are cloaning babies to take over the world.......if they shouldnt breed chances are they CANT........before i get 8000 replies telling me im an idiot and their ranges do not overlap cause i do NOT know if they do i was refering to hybrids in general not balls and angolans......no harm .........Later

There are not a huge amount of angolans in collections and not many of them are owned by people who intend to hybridize them. You are correct, there is no need for it and it makes me a little uneasy to think someone would want that. Its like mixing molurus molurus with the burm morphs...when an indian or a pimbura would be preffered as a normal...they are not common as it is so why make morphs from another species. I do not think it will be a problem though. But I agree the thought is disturbing people want to see such animals. I would love to see a pair of E. beniensis introduced into collections but you know down the line it will just get mixed in with the other anacondas so it would be a shame. If you brought in E. deschauenseii it could get really confusing since it almost looks like a murinus X notaeus as it is. I do have to agree with the original poster on one thing though...I would like to see more threads and photos of angolans.

As one of the first and most consistent private Angolan breeders, I must admit that the temptation was once there to try it. But, it was more of a scientific curiosity, and once Kevin proved it could be done, the motivation is really no longer there. I do personally have a problem with hybrids, but everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Plus, with the choice of the right male ball python, you can make about as much as putting an Angolan on a normal female, so the financial incentive is not there, without the controversy.
Angolan Pythons

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Al Zulich
Harford Reptile
www.pythons.com

i know what your saying but honestly i think it would sell no matter what....(the hypothetical offspring from your scenarios).....why?....because it caught someones eye,its rare,and it has a big pricetag.......so they buy it breed it and continue right along

I dont want to see the snakes mass produced. I am just looking at the genetic side. For example... An Angolan Spider Ball Python. I think that would be exciting to see. I aint trying to "mud the waters". I just seen the pics at NERD a while back go and I liked them. Sorry if I got anyone mad.
Sorry,
James

Mad? Not me. Sorry if you got that indication from my reply. My reply was just an opinion.

Nothing wrong with a little discussion.

Happy Herping.

BB

I just dont want any bad blood. You seem cool and I hear where youre coming from so I wanted to appologize. Thanks for the posts.
Thanks,
James

Indian x ball..........

think of it....9 foot....38 pound ball *(hybrid).that lays 43 eggs......MMMMMMMMMMMM...all pieds...........
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