Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In the early 90's I bred thayeri from 2 different lines and always got 8-12 good eggs per clutch. In the mid 90's I bred 2 different lines of mex mex and always got 2-6 good eggs per clutch and from the mid 90's until now I have bred one line of greeri and get 4-6 good eggs per clutch. The thayeri eggs were always much smaller than the mex mex and greeri eggs. Has anybody else noticed differences in clutch sizes between these forms?

Aaron,
I have yet to produce any Greeri, but I can agree with you on the Thayeri and Mexmex. Since 2002 my Thayeri clutches have been from 8 to 14 good eggs from 3 different lines. My Mexmex have laid from 4 to 6 good eggs. And yes the Thayeri eggs as well as the hatchlings are rather smaller in comparison to the Mexmex's.
What is the largest clutch of each known to have been laid by a single female? And What do you think the fertility rate is with each? I am having around a 90% hatch rate or higher with Thayeri and Alterna, but much lower with Mexmex. I built a hibernation box (needed here in south Texas) so I think the fertility rate will sky rocket this year.
John Lassiter

My best:
thayeri 13 eggs, 11 fertile.
mexmex 6 eggs, 6 fertile.
greeri 6 eggs, 5 fertile.
I think those are my actual numbers, I was generalizing above. The mex mex were on breeding loan for the numbers above. For the same pair in my care it was 6 eggs, 5 fertile. The 2 other pairs of mexmex I've owned consistently had poor fertility and problems with egg binding probably because the females were somewhat small and the eggs were huge.
I am not too optimistic about this year. It has been the warmest winter here I can remember.

All my winters are warm down here in Corpus Christi. That is why I had to build a hibernation/brumation enclosure in my snake room. It has its own a/c unit and holds temps from 49 to 58 degrees. I have had them down since Thanksgiving and thinking of warming them up a little next weekend. Then full heat and feeding begins til the females shed. Boy I can't wait to see eggs hatching.
John Lassiter

Hey Aaron,
With your greeri fertility, did you brumate the parents any colder than say around 53F? If so, how long were they down while they were chilling?
Best...
Jim

Their brumation temps fluctuate mainly between 50-62 F. Occasional highs of 68 and lows of 38 have occured but that is just for a couple hours in the afternoons and early mornings during warm spells and cold snaps. I live in a coastal climate and temps are for the most part moderated by the winds coming off the ocean which prevent freezing. I brumate from about mid-november to late march/early april. I have noticed the greeri breed right out of hibernation before the female has her first shed. The only time I've gotten a totally infertile clutch was when I took them out late and the female shed 1 week after hibernation, usually she sheds about 3-4 weeks after hibernation and begins breeding 2 weeks prior to shedding and will continue to breed 2-4 weeks after her first shed. The males will try to breed anytime of the year but the female will only accept them when she's ovulating. The males can be extreemly aggressive when she's not receptive and they have to be watched carefully.
I also keep them at room temp. daytime high about 70-75 nightime low about 65-68. The female is given a hot spot of 80-84 and the males hot spot is 75-78. I think low night time temps for the males during breeding season is a key element for greeri.
I have based my methods on springtime observation of zonata in the wild where they can be found thermoregulating near the surface when it is quite warm and yet the nightime temps drop into the 50's or lower.

Thanks, Aaron. I also think your slightly longer brumation period helps, along with nightly cooler temps. Good luck this year!
Best...
Jim

What is the largest clutch of Thayeri eggs known?
One of my females lays 14 eggs every year and she has the largest clutches in my collection of Thayeri. The hatch rate of these are more than 90% also.
What about Maximum number of Mexmex eggs in one clutch? Greeri?

Thanks,
John Lassiter