Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Background: I am a mature adult who has kept a variety of herps for 10 years. I treat all my animals with the respect that any wild animal deserves.

I have always been drawn to the dramatic beauty of b.dendrophilia since I first laid eyes on one. After years of experience I would consider myself well equipped to keep a mildly venomous snake in a safe manner. I have read on this site, amongst others, that the colubritoxin delivered by mangroves is very comparable to the elapids in efficacy but that the delivery mechanism is primitive relative to the more "serious" hots.

Assuming that you are not one of the few unfortunates that happen to be allergic to the venom secretion, what can one realistically expect from a bite from a mangrove? I have no intention of letting one chew on my arm but accidents do happen and I want to be prepared.

Thanks all.
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"Nothing happens in contradiction to nature, only to what we know of it."

Hi:

You should really re-post this on the "Rear-Fang" forum. RF's are not my bag but I do know the venom is as toxic as some of the front fanged snakes. The saving grace is their ability to deliver the "payload" is poor at best.

You might also try Dr. Brian G. Fry's website. He's one of the top venom researchers in the world. He also is very willing to share his time and repond to questions on his "Venom Doc forum"

Cheers,

Al
Venom Doc Forum

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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

As Al said, this is a post for the rearfang forum, but since it's here...

In general a bite from even a large mangrove is UNLIKELY (though not impossible) to have serious or life threatening symptoms. I have heard of cases of permanent damage to the hand from a bite inflicted on the knuckle. Other Boiga species (i.e. irregularis) have caused serious symptoms in children (for example in Guam, where they are a rampant introduced species). The venom is highly toxic (on par with Acanthophis), but as stated delivery is inefficient at best...which is good, because they are quick, can be aggressive, and are extremely good climbers (arboreal snakes), as well as very agile. If you are unlucky enough to be allergic to the venom or hypersensitive, a bite could get ugly (and potentially life threatening due to anaphylaxis).

I have a c.b. female, which has never bitten me, but she sure has tried.

Sorry for posting in the wrong forum (brain fart).

The comment about lasting damage being a potential result of even a casual bite has made me decide that I'll wait until I have a house with a secure locked room before I get one. I may be willing to take the risk, such as it is, but I don't want to chance exposing my wife to any danger.

Thank you for the informed replies.

Bryan
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"Nothing happens in contradiction to nature, only to what we know of it."

Ps- I came across a clip from one of Austin Stevens shows where he free handles a mangrove and refers to it as a "false venomous snake"!
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"Nothing happens in contradiction to nature, only to what we know of it."

One thing my collegue and I forgot to mention but needs to be brought up. SERIOUS infection, some almost fatal, all requiring IV antibiotics to treat occur commonly with so called harmless snakes. Jim Harrision (Kentucky Reptile Zoo)told me of a bite someone received from a "Venomoid" Rhino Viper that almost cost the guy his life from such an infection.

Always treat a bite with proper first aid and keep your eye's open for the first signs of problems. Early treatment is essential.

Cheers!

Al
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The more people I meet...the better I like my venomous snakes.

As Al stated, infection is definitely a VERY serious concern with a bite from even a "harmless" species.

However, a bite from a venomoid rhino viper is much liklier to develop an infection that a bite from a Boiga, for example. This is logically due to the rhino having MUCH longer fangs which penetrate deeper into the tissue. The bacteria on the fangs is deposited much deeper into the tissue, and a serious infection can occur.

It is always smart though to thoroughly clean and disinfect any wound recieved from a snake (or any other animal for that matter), and to watch for any symptoms of infection.

Sorry guys, but the infection danger from a Boiga is a very remote possibility at best and has more to say about an individuals immune system and general health than it has about the venom.

I have in my thirty odd years of working with venomous and non venomous snakes recieved easily over a thousand bites and never recieved an infection from any of them.

As to Mangroves I have been bitten by them on many occasions and usually ignore the minimal-if any results. I have only shown caution when faced with a large individual-that I have never been envenomated by.

But I have recieved envenomations from several species of rearfang snake, some of which were reported to have more severe consequences-with minimal effect.

But to get back to the point. most bites bleed freely and so the chance of a serious infection from most is extremely slight-unless the species feeds on carrion (for example Moccasins), or if teeth are left in the wound.

The bottom line is don't make a dragon out of a lizard...and keep a bottle of alcohol in your room to clean bites and you'll be fine.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I remember Dr. Fry saying gardening gloves and a long sleve shirt would be enough to protect you from envenomation. It makes sense due to the toxin mearly flowing down groved curved teeth and not injected. It would basically "soak" up in the cloth and not be able to efficiently flow into you...especially with a quick bite. If you treat it as a hot and wear gloves and long sleves while doing it I would sya your potential danger is quite low. It does need to be locked up in a separate room though. ALL my snakes are in a separate room and most my enclosures have locks on them. It is as much a responsibility with the risk of them getting out. People hear about snakes getting out and it does not matter if it is venomous.

!
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"Nothing happens in contradiction to nature, only to what we know of it."

Here in Florida Boiga d. was sold for many years as harmless-till a disgruntled petshop employee reported to Fish and Game that they were venomous to get even with his ex-employer. Prior to that F&G treated them as harmless.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Rhabdophis and even Dispholidus were considered "harmless" until people died from their bites.

I would hardly forget. I was bitten by a Rhabdophis before they knew they were venomous. Nothing happened (because of the location of the bite. HOWEVER, You are talking about a snake with a Much more potent yield when you speak of the keelbacks. As to the other snake. Been there-been bit-Nothing happened.

I got bit just the other day while moving a mangrove. As usual-no reaction.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Mis read the Dispholidus. Never kept one. But It was known to be lethal even when I was a kid (in the 1950'S). That was also before most of the laws governing venomous were enacted.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

bitten by a Dispholidus and NO REACTION??? You really are superman, Frank!

Take care,

Abhishek

Well just BACK OFF WITH THAT KRYPTONITE!!(lol)

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."