Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What exactly does the Bug Eyed trait look like and why is it so undesirable? Hopefully the breeder im getting my snake from will have some normal males in stock (he garauntees no bug eyes). Please post any pics you may know of or have... Thanks Again!
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-Doug Daly

Undesirable because it is the result of heavy inbreeding. The breeder should outcross the trait with wild stock to prevent inbreeding flaws. Sorry, no pics, just keep caution of who you buy from, pick the quality animal that costs a little more, its well worth it.

No POST!
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-Doug Daly

....Undesirable because...Most people don't seem to want them. Either because they don't like the look, or somebody decided that they are "undesirable" and now they are considered as such. They are no more or less the result of inbreeding than all of the other unusual traits that we consider desirable...usually color variations. Yes, they are the result of inbreeding, but that's true of any recessive trait that we keep breeding for. This one seems to show up so much in leucistic texas rats that one wonders if it is carried on the same chromosome.

The trait itself is open to opinion. I have a bugeye, and my inexperienced friends think it's cool looking. From what I have heard and observed there is nothing undesirable other than the fact that they are "worth less" because the decision has been made that they are less worthy. For that reason alone, however, they should probably not be bred as they will result in offspring that are difficult to get rid of. My leucistic bugeyed texas rat is one of my favorite snakes. He was a feisty, pissy little hatchling (typical tex). He is a beautiful, calm but active four foot snake now. Just ate a rat yesterday. I hope to have him for years to come. Got him for free from a breeder friend who gave him to me because he was worth "only pennies".......go figure. Duffy

Thanks for the info. So the whole bug-eyed thing is kinda like something we talked about in Social Studies: "Why does paper and coin money have value to it?" -Becasue the Government says it does. I guess it's kinda like that!

By the way, do you have any pictures of your snake? I'd like to see the bug-eye trait. The breeder im hoping to get my snake from only has 2 left and my parents are still "Discussing" the issue. (my mom's afraid it'll escape if i get it, my dad doesn't care: says it's up to my mom) Any ideas on "Putting a nail in the coffin" on the topic? I just need a little more backing to convine her. (I think shes afraid of 'em althouhg she is a Biology teacher; i don't think she like reptiles (lizards maybe but not snakes). Once again thanks!
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-Doug Daly

As I said, that is certainly MY opinion on the topic. I have read many posts regarding snakes with the trait and never had any reason to think that the animals were inferior in any real way. My snake, as I said, is great.

Sorry, no pics. I am still in the stone age w/no digital camera.

As far as your parents are concerned: I always say that education is the answer. I will tell you that I have kept many animals as pets in my 46 years, and snakes (especially North American Ratsnakes) are among the easiest to care for. A toy poodle can and will give you a worse bite. A playful kitten is probably more likely to draw blood. They don't stink. Feeding frozen/thawed rodents once a week is an easy and clean routine. You may need to keep a small supply in your freezer, but as long as the plastic bag is inside a paper bag nobody has to look at them.

If your breeder assures you that he will not give you a bug-eyed animal, you can probably count on it. If you had a chance to go to some shows where you might find some, however, you could decide for yourself if you would be willing to own one if the price was right. With Texas Ratsnakes, especially since your folks are still deciding, I would try to find out if there is a reptile show near you. If you can find a selection, you could handle a few animals and choose one that seems calm already. As stated previously, however, mine started out nippy and feisty but quickly calmed down. For a first snake, though, you may want one that doesn't even start out nippy. Good luck. Duffy

Thanks for the information! As i said earlier my mom is afraid it'll escape i keep assuring her it will not be able to. I dont want to put pressure on her and make her decide quickly (usually results in a "No". But my breeder only has 2 left and i don't know how log they'll last. My dad just doesn't really care as i already stated but he doesn't want to drive me 1 hour and 30 minutes to the closest breeder i could find either! I tried finding some reptile show around here (Richboro, Pa. Just outside of Philadelphia (about 30 minutes)). I'm gonna keep on pushing it with my mom and hopefully get a yes out of her, soon. As for the nippy part, ive read that many places, it doesn't hurt though as i understand it. I have been sliced, cut and split open more times than i can count so i think ill manage. Once again thank you all for your input (especailly Duffy).
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-Doug Daly

I have to take an oposite view on the bug eyed trait of some of the leucistic Texas Rats. We have been working with them for over 15 years now. Additionally we out-cross our leucistic's every 3rd or 4th generation to do away with this trait. The reason for doing so is not specifically because of the bug eyes, but rather the other really negative traits that are associated with them. After a number of years of breeding this animal, everyone that had not out crossed they to a new gene pool started to have more spinal kinks, smaller hatchling size and numerous other genetic problems. The indicator of problems to come that was easily and commonly identified was the bugeyes. This is the reason it is used as a standard to judge the viability of the specific strain or bloodline of leucistic texas rats, not some randomly determined like or dislike.

Hope that helps,

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

The Bug-Eyed trait is a result of excessive inbreeding. The more you inbreed the animal for the desired Morph the more likely the trait will show, whether the trait shows or not inbreeding directly links to Shorter life spans, mutations, agression, and various other "side-effects". But the actual bug eyed trait on a perfectly healthy specimen is the matter of discussion. Some people like it and others do not, it's that simple. I personally have never seen the Bug-Eyed trait and cannot judge for myself what it looks like and whether it is appeasing or not. Once again thank you all for the help.

PS-My breeder just sold his last 2 Leuc. Tex. Rats!!! I think ive found another guy though who has non-bug-eyed for a cheaper shipping price. Hopefully ill convinve my mom within the weekend to allow me to get one. Wish me luck!
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-Doug Daly

Thats great info thanks. I was looking at one being sold and it was being sold for more since it had bug eyes. The site listed as great dark bug eyes and again more money than non bug eyes.
nice to know that bug eyes is what you dont want.
Rita

Thats funny, Ive never heard of someone selling them for more saying they are better. Most people sell non bug eyes for more because of the stronger blood, which is what most people seek. Just a crazy attempt by some causal inbreeder.

If you really like them, you should be able to pick one up pretty cheap, but if you plan to breed I would go for the better specimens.

Yes it was more due to the bug eyes i think it was clever marketing to people that didnt know like me. I do like them and plan to get a baby come this spring.
Not to breed tho but to keep in roomy enclosure with branches but not going with bug eyes now that I know might have some problems.

Glad to hear you are making the smart choice. Those people inbreed to make babies quick and cheap without caring about the consequenses, people shouldnt buy from them and then maybe it will stop.

Untill I found out on this board that bug eyes are inbred I thought they were a trait that was sought after. The place that sold it had a great ad to for people like me that are new to ratsnakes. It listed it as great looking unique bug eye and for more money to than the non bug eye lol.
I love those white TX ratsnakes and intend to get one soon. Thank for the info.