Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have an auratus that is about 2" she seems to have a subcutaneous parasite on her left side. It looks like something crawling under her skin. Did anyone see this before? Any help would be appreciated.

Is your frog wild-caught? Cagemates wildcaught? Where do you live? Can you see it moving; why do you think it is a worm?

Hookworms do enter the skin and are often seen just under it. Answer the above questions and seek vet advice on what it is exactly (we can only guess over the net) and thus what treatment is appropriate. Good luck

The frog was purchased at a petshop...prob. wild caught. The skin ripples on the left side of her stomach. She is the only frog in the cage. I did put wild moss...could be responsible. Whatever it is it is definately visible when she is still. It moves as a worm would under the skin, but seem more flat like a trematode....could it be scystosomiasis? Thanks

Other than what was said above, be sure to isolate your frog from others immediately. And of course a source for finding a herp vet in your area: (click on members, then area, etc.)
Link

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

The closest reptile vet to me is in New Orleans....but he doesnt know anything about frog parasites. I live in New Iberia, LA. I do most of the deworming myself. The frog is ALONE she has no cagemates. Common sense tells me no panacur...cause the worm is not in the intestines. Droncit will kill trematodes...but not sure of the risk on frogs. I usually use powdered panacur for amphibians I just dust the food with it. But I never dewormed a frog with a fluke(not sure it is one). Panacur covers the nematode family(or most of it) which includes hookworm, ascarids, pinworms, whipworms, but will not harm trematodes(flatworms). Im not even sure it is a worm..just something undulating on her left side. She is a HUGE auratus and eats very well. She is in no immediate danger of dying. Unfortunatly, the other two at the petshop died(go figure)and she would have as well if I did not buy her. For those that read this message..please look at your dart's sides and tell me if you see this too. If it is subcutaneous..chances are good that the worm is in the wrong host(trying to escape)and will die in a few weeks..I will keep a strong eye on her.

you seem to have a pretty good grasp on parasitology. Can you do your own fecals? If there are no other signs of parasitism and the frog is happy and healthy than it may stand to leave it alone. On the other hand, if it is a worm there are certain risks involved in letting it burrow around. How large is it? Is it possible that your are mistaking worm from a SQ artery or vein? If in fact it is a worm there are most likely others. A large die off of worms withen the body (esp elsewhere than the intestine) can cause analphylaxis. Surgical removal may also be an option. If you really want to pursue this consider taking your frog to another, more specialized vet. (remember that even the most experienced herp vet will have problems identifying uncommon parasites)

If it is indeed a worm...it seems to be moving in the same spot in the frog over and over. I thought it may be an artery...but have you ever seen a pulse on the dart's left side(nose facing away from you)? Im not sure..I thought it was a mistake to introduce the wild moss....but on the other hand potted plants at lowes and such have a good risk for parasites in the soil as well. I guess there is not definate way around it. I could do a fecal myself...but I dont have the proper microscope. I will bring a sample to the vet...and analyze it myself. It would be really simple to wait for the parasite eggs to hatch if it is an uncommon worm spp. I put some panacur on the dart's back and droncit as well...both seem inaffective(althought the dosage for droncit may have been too small.) If she does infact have worms...depending on the species when I get the results, I may deworm her weekly to monthly or clean the tank(I dont want too....looks too good. Thanks for you help.

The auratus definately has a worms..they moved from one side to the other. I think the culprit is a shcistosome(shcistosomiasis) a trematode flatworm that uses amphibians as an intermidiate host. I will get her fecal checked tomorrow and post the results. I will deworm her in a simple plastic shoe box, with moist paper towels. Then clean out the tank and replace everything. When she is wormed, and the tank is reset, I will get her fecals done still. I she turns positive agian, all I can do is deworm them on a weekly basis. Besides I cant be destroying a nice setup every month. When the darts are kept in simple enclosers they are easier to keep and clean. But as we all know, the terrerium is the fun part.
joey

If you have a Schistosome under the skin, you are not going to diagnose it with a fecal sample, which entails recognizing the eggs, which whatever you have, is a lost soul in the skin, not breeding or laying eggs in the subcutaneous tissue, because this would be a dead end. On the off-chance it would even do this, the eggs would not reach the gut and get excreted. I doubt it is a schistosome, although my own expertise is in mammalian parasites, not amphibians, so I won't stake my life on it. If you can see it under the skin, and there is only one, the solution is one of 1. the surgical removal of your worry by a qualified amphibian veterinarian, and 2. specific diagnosis, then 3. specific treatment if he suspects others. In my own experience, schistosomes in the adult stages are microscopic. They will cause a rash if they invade the skin, but you don't see the individual worms crawling around under the skin with the naked eye.

Is the frog still healthy and feeding?

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

I thought adult schistosomes are usually between 1 and 2 cm in length and that it was the larva that migrated through the body.
Additionally in species such as S. mansoni, the eggs migrate through the intestional wall from the adults position in a mesenteric vein so they can be excreted.
If it is a trematode infection that the Amphibian Medicine and Husbandry indicates that treatment is "difficult, potentially dangerous to the host, and in many cases is unsuccessful."
In adult amphibians trematodes are generally located in the digestive tract, cloaca, urinary bladder, eyes, central nervous system, body cavity, eustacian tubes and lungs (Whittaker and Wright 2001).

My first recommendation would be to get one or more fecal checks performed on the frog as other possible parasitic causes could be encycted tapeworms (some of which can move about within the cyst), and nematodes that live in the body cavity or are moving through the tissues.

Ed

You are right, Ed. The cercariae are microscopic and it is they that penetrate the skin to migrate eventually to the mesentery or portal veins where they mature and deposit their eggs, which then "erode" by exuding enzymes that allow them to enter into the intestines, or in the case of S. haemotobium, the human bladder. The adults can range from 2mm to 20mm, depending upon sex and species, so are certainly visible. My point was that one would not see a mature schistosome just under the skin, apparently unaccompanied by either inflammation or encystment. I doubt it is any sort of nematode at all, but my anurian parasite knowledge is sparse. The cercarial invasions of swimmers itch, where the parasite tries to penetrate the wrong host and can't get completely in, are well known, as is larvae migrans, but all of these invasions are microscopic and cause inflammations.

I am certainly not against having fecals done; this is always a good idea. But I think this frog needs to be diagnosed by an amphibian veternarian. Whatever is being seen may be just a superficial pulsating arteriole. Anything diagnosed from a fecal should be treated specifically. I don't think any treatment should be shotgunned just from suspicion alone, especially in an otherwise healthy animal. (There are some exceptions in horses, etc. where one is controlling strongyles and bots in a pasture, and know the cycles well.) But that's another subject.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

I agree that shotgun treatments often are of no use.

I have seen anurans that have had nematodes dispersed throughout the body cavity that were of significant size when compared to the size of the adult frog.

As an FYI, if you are ever feeding any type of earthworm to an animal and want to get a fecal check done, stop feeding the worms at least a week in advance as the parasites living in the earthworms will give you a false positive for nematodes.

Ed

I apologize for posting so much about this subject, but it really interested me, because I couldn't imagine what it would be if it were a parasite. I've been looking at my own darts closely and have noticed that nearly all of the larger of them exhibit a kind of parastaltic type movement along their sides, just under the ribs when they are actively hunting, in particular. It's a sort of rippling just under the skin below the ribs. This is bilateral, however and not confined to one side or another. I think you stated that you saw this on the left. After consulting the circulatory system and other frog anatomy, there are some branching arteries along the sides in this area. What I was seeing doesn't undulate back and forth, but simply pulses from the cephalic to caudal regions. Until you posted, I'd never noticed this before. Neither am I sure this is the same thing you are seeing in your auratus, because I wouldn't associate it with a worm-like movement of any sort.

Is your frog still healthy and active? Please follow up with us and let us know what you've done and how the frog is doing.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Sorry for not responding earlier I was caught up in college studies. Yes I did get the fecal done. YES IT CAME OUT NEGATIVE. And I am not stupid enough to trust that. So I smeared some panacur liquid onto the dart's back(this absorbs into the skin and partially paralyzes nematodes in the intestines.). Less than 24 hour later I checked the fecal myself and boom...pinworms. Brought the worms to the vet and they were infact pins. A mass of pins burrowed under the frog's skin, and were taking hold under the skin making their way to the intestines. Pins, hooks, and whips are all capable of burrowing under the skin of frogs..and humans as well. I made a dilute solution of panacur and put it in the quarintine tank's water bowl. This is a slow treatment that is better for the frog since a big die-off of worms can be disasterous to the system. No flukes showed up....but after the panacur treatment I will dust the frog's food with praziquantal(droncit) to kill any prexisting flukes or tapes. A 23mg tablet of droncit must be accomidated to a 10g frog. To do this use a simple conversion factor...23mg treats a kg of mass. So simply multiply 23mg x the weight of you frog in grams divided by 1000(please correct me if I am wrong). Of course Im not saying droncit is safe....but i have used it many times on amphibians with no side effects. As a general rule use droncit twice over a 10 day period. For panacur, treat three days, wait 10, then treat another three. Then of course check fecals again. Pinworms are commonly found in potted plant soils so make sure you buy clean plants(yeah I know it is nearly impossible to tell.) Anyway most darts have parasites, mine just got a motherload. Darts dont usually have obvious pulsating on their sides. The pulsating stopped with the first treatment. I hope this helps.
Joey

This is very interesting to me, because I've never come across pinworms under the skin, or any citations of this occuring in humans. I'm referring to Enterobius vermicularis- in all of the years I've been doing parasitology-- about 50 years in all. They infect from the fecal/oral route directly, or reinfect from the itching they cause that kids may scratch, then put their fingers in their mouth or from food and soil contamination. I have looked through all of my most current references, and cannot find a single incidence that they have occurred under the skin of humans or mammals. I can't find any references that they occur in frogs at all, but these references are rather sparse. I should think Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry would have mentioned them, though, and I have this reference. Perhaps "pinworm" is an entirely different worm in amphibian talk. Common names can be misleading. I'm not putting you or your veterinarian down, by any means. I obviously have something to learn here that appears to be brand new to me.

I hope Ed K gets in on this one.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

You are correct...this worm was not identified by a species, but as a close representation of a pinworm. The worm was a small parasitic nematode. I am not familiar with all species of parasitic nematodes. I know for a fact that some nematodes can burrow through the skin(hooks). Maybe the frog ingested the pin eggs in a large quantitiy and not all of them made it to the intestines. They could have ended up other places. Or maybe a large influx of worms in the intestines causes a rippling effect? Anyway I am no vet....and your experience is much over mine. All I know is panacur works on nematodes and that's all I needed to know at the time. If you want to give me some info about common worm spp. that inhabit amphibians, maybe this can be useful in identifying the worm. Thanks.

You're right, the important thing was getting the problem taken care of with the proper medication. I wish I did have a good reference for amphibian nematodes, but can't seem to find one. I have a decent one on the platyhelminths in amphibians. As I said, all of my parasite training and experience has been in humans and mammals. I've been retired for five years, so don't get the latest poop anymore unless I go looking for it.

I thought about the possibility of a lot of worms undulating in the intestines being visible on the surface, but when I saw the phenomenon of the undulations in all my larger frogs, which I now think is a pulsing from heart beat, as it increases when they are excited and becomes invisible when they are just "meditating," I sort of dismissed it.

One of the problems with discussions like this is common names. Pin worms to me, mean only one specie, the Enterobius vermicularis, named for it's pin-like and very distinctive posterior. The ova are also very distinctive and difficult to mistake for anything else.

Thanks to you, for making me get off my butt and look up some stuff, even if I didn't find the right answer.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus