Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know of a breeder and supplier of Aesculapine Snakes in the U.S. (Elaphe longissima = Zamenis longissima)?

There are two people with breeding projects that I'm aware of but neither will probably have offspring until 2006. Contact Gregg Feaster at Greggsrb.com (or look at his website) and/or talk to John Firneno who frequents this site for more info. Both are great contacts and genuinely honest people.

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Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for [bleep]. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

>>There are two people with breeding projects that I'm aware of but neither will probably have offspring until 2006. Contact Gregg Feaster at Greggsrb.com (or look at his website) and/or talk to John Firneno who frequents this site for more info. Both are great contacts and genuinely honest people.
>>
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>>Amor et Lux,
>>Ron
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>>"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for [bleep]. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

Ron:
Thanks for the kind words. I think Gregg would be the right guy for anyone looking for longissima in the short term. Mine are not going to be doing any breeding for a couple of years.
Best regards
John

Thank you for that information. I contacted him.

As a herpetoculturalist and ancient history buff, the Aesculapine Snake has always interested me.

I was attracted to the Aesculapian for it's historical/spiritual significance also. I did a talk on Sacred Serpents for a local lecture group about a year ago and would be happy to share references/ideas with you any time. Good luck on acquiring one.
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Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for [bleep]. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

It's interesting to see the ambiguous position of snakes in Hellenic and specifically Apollonian tradition. Asklepios has knowledge and healing power from the snake and yet Apollo (Asklepios's father) occasionally uses serpents to injure or kill. Here's a passage where a snake sent by Apollo injures someone and only Apollo's grandsons can heal the wound.

The bite you received was fate
For you angered Chryse's guard
The unseen snake who patrols her roofless shrine
And you will never be cured
While Helios climbs there in the east
or descends there in the west
Until you go to Plain of Troy
And see the sons of Asklepios

Sophokles' Philoktetes (Lines 1326 and following)

Now this advice is being given ten years after Philoctetes had been bitten by the snake. Apparently the treatment protocols for snake bite were a lot different back then.

I would actually go so far as to say that the negative aspect of the serpent is seen as the rarerer side in the early levant. Of course there are the monsters (Typhon, Leviathan, Python, Tiamet, Lotan, Ladon, Jormugand, Apep, etc...) but the healers and wisdom bringers seem to me to be the more profound. I would love to expound more but I've got an 8 year old pajama party to deal with Have you read Mundkur's "The Cult of the Serpent: An Interdisciplinary Survey of its Manifestations and Origins"? or "Ophiolatrea" (actually this title is available for free online)? Actually, some of my favorite myths revolve around early Hebraic thought (i.e. Moses) and the Gnostic Ophites. Sorry for being scattered but... kids...
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Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for [bleep]. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

More on Moses...
From Josephus' "Antiquities of the Jews" book 2 chapter 9, 1st century C.E.
"Pharaoh's daughter, Thermuthis, was walking along the river bank... Thermuthis gave him the name Moses... Having no children of her own, she adopted him as her own son."
Now, google Thermuthis Serpent
It looks just like a fun coincidence until you dig deeper into the Hellenic thought and see amulets with anguipedes and the name YHVH and read the some of the early translations of the Greaco-Egyptian papyri (circa 4th century C.E.) that contains the "Bornless Ritual" where the priest identifies himself with Moses and goes on to say "The Heart girt with a Serpent is my name". Then there are the magical works by Moses where his first biblically recorded manifestation of power is the changing of his staff into a snake and then later saving his people by the "Brazen Serpent" Nechushtan being raised upon the pole so that those who look upon it may live... Now I realize that Hezekiah tore down the image of Nechushtan a little later (only 600 years /-) but it stands that a major element of the Jewish tradition, for over half a millenia, was serpent worship! Then of course there is the old Hebrew cryptology practice of Gematria whereas Nachash (serpent) and Meshiach (savior) can be seen in some ways as synonomous through their numerical identities. Oh, and a fun one for you relating to the whole Apolloian use of serpents as a weapon "... thence will I command the serpent and he shall bite them." Amos 9:3.

Sorry for rambling but this is fun stuff to me.
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Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for [bleep]. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

I'll finish off my part with a last piece of ancient snakelore that relates to both this forum and to the longissima origin of this thread. Otherwise we may drift too far off topic for this site.

At certain ritual sites in Greece there were sacred serpents and devotees would leave sweet cakes for the snakes. Now of course no snake would ever eat a cake but from the point of view of attracting and feeding rodents this actually could have been beneficial to a local population of ratsnakes. It might have been one of the few cases of a symbiotic relationship between man and reptile in the ancient world.
Regards
John

Is this the reference you refer to:
"The people of Epirus sacrifice in general to Apollo, and on one day of the year they celebrate to him their chief feast, a feast of great magnificence, much reputed. There is a grove dedicted to the god, with a circular enclosure, within which are snakes -- playthings, surely, for the god. And they are approached only by the maiden priestess. She is naked, and she brings to the snakes their food. These snakes are declared by the people of Epirus to be descended from the Python at Delphi. And now, if when the priestess approaches them the snakes are seen to be gentle, and if they take to their food kindly, that is said to mean that there will be a plentiful year and free from diease; but if they frighten her and do not take the honey cakes she offers, they protend the reverse."

I agree that perhaps this all is a bit too off topic but the stories facinate me... The whole idea that these incredible creatures that are so villified were once so venerated rivals to me the Grail mysteries which are so in vogue now...
Out of curiousity, when you read the new breakthroughs in medical research on venom don't you just wonder about the whole Gilgamesh story with the serpent who steals the herb of immortality, or the same story applied to Aesculapius. I know what the convential (and perhaps likely) interpretations are, but just maybe they (our ancestors) knew something we are just learning... Or perhaps I'm just demonstrating my talent for bulls**t. Vale, Ciao, etc...
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Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for [bleep]. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

Ron:
The example that comes to mind was a line in Aristophanes' comedy "The Clouds".
Strepsiades is being sent into a dark place by Socrates and he says: "Brr, it's as dark as a snakepit down there. Give me a honeycake to throw to the snakes, Socrates, or they'll eat me alive." (William Arrowsmith's translation).
I work in the pharmaceutical industry and of late snake venom has become a tool used in some purifications. So I think you're right, there is a modern echo to the dualistic feelings toward snakes and their attributes.
But if I switch my longissima from mice to honey cakes I fear they may eat me alive.
Best regards
John

I hope to breed my Russian locale{eastern Black Sea area} longissma this season. The photo was taken a couple of years ago, I will try to get an updated one soon. ---Scott

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