Reptile & Amphibian Forums

From what i get out of it, Bcc from the guyana shield are morphologically the same snake. Pattern is extremely variable within that entire region. But the fact is that the Bcc in that range is all the same species. Perhaps some locals produce certain aspects do to the fact that a lot of the animals within that locality interbreed and establish a certain look. however, some of those animals also travel great distances and spread their genetics to other localities that look different in pattern and color wise and therefore produce a whole new look of Bcc. so, peaks, color, medalions, all of these in certain combinations make up Bcc but reguardless they all have the same morphological structures. So essentially, yes, these animals are the same species, but i don't think anyone is arguing that they aren't a variable animal and that their pattern and color certainly change over a broad area.
I particularly like the example of human beings. some of us are black, some are white, some are hispanic etc. we all have a different look to us, but we are all H. sapien. we have zero difference morphologically.
Eliot Stone
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1.1 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1 Suriname Red Tailed Boas
and always looking for more!

Essentially... however, WE are differnt. Black whites, hispanics, asians, though diluting more and more each year... still have some significantly differnt colors, and skeletal structures. If we were a high species than humans classifying life on earth, we could EASILY etablish differnt SSPs for differnt types of people throughout time. But we are human, all Homosapien, but like I say, one could easily look at say a classic samoan/polinasian person, and next to a person from zimbabwae...well it would be as plain as the diffence between an argentine and a hog island.

Morphologicly we are differnt.

My 2 cents on the human comparison that is anyways.

I deffinatly can asses a visible difference between 'peruvians' and the 'suri/guyana' type... but its demed geneticly they are the same ssp by the people who actually make these decisions and put them into text. It's just the region of land the size of peru (guyana shield) that holds animals who are indeed geneticly and morphologicly the same across the board. Morphologicly meaning they run the same gambit of appearances... not they each individually look alike.

Good post eliot.
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recycle your pets

it's funny. I just went on "boogle" (google with quotes) to get some images for the debate and the quote that came up was
"A theory must be tempered with reality. " -
Jawaharlal Nehru

Here is a pretty good link. Since we're the breeders and collectors it's pretty much up to us to decide what is going to be what. I think where the hobby is going, and where I'd personally like to see it go, is where you have "localities" that are consistent. Do you like big saddles, darker purplish color and iridescence? Ok that's what we call in the hobby "guyanan". Oh you like a certain more specific look to your guyanan - bigger peaks, thinner saddles but keeping the purple color - that's what we call "essequebo guyanans". Do you want straw colored animals with moderate to high peaks, possible "train tracks" between the saddles and high contrast. Those are "brazilians". Pink color, high peaks and big tails. "Surinam". Oh you want extreme peaks and aren't as concerned about the size of the tail or the pink color - "southern surinams". Straw color, extreme black/yellow contrast and hourglass saddles. "Peruvian". Hey and these basic flavors even have sub flavors. There's a group of breeders that breed mainly for color in their peruvians. Look for "iquitos gold". And then you have the surinam guys who are breeding for huge tails - check them out. Oh, you like a combination of those traits, me too, well there are breeders breeding awesome "generic BCC". In fact, if you want the best ones, buy them from me, Dan Worontzoff .
I think this is a practical way of handling it. Animals that share traits will be generics - or to prevent them from being unmarketable despite being awesome looking, we can call them super BCC or something.
Link

Sticking to people as an example. Look at northern Africa. North west Africans are very different than north east Africans. West Africans (the region used for the slave trade and where most US blacks come from) tend to be of stocky build while those of east Africa tend to be of slight build. East Africans excel as distance runners, west Africans sprinting. There are many other differences as well. So here is a large region where the populations can mix and breed yet there remains differences based on region despite the lack of any physical barriers. Sometimes space alone can serve as a barrier. A gradual barrier but a barrier non the less. Look at the Florida king snake. It definitely differs in the south and north regions of the state with no water or mountain barriers.

People from different parts of the world are quite different morphologically. How is it possible to exist on this planet for more than a day without seeing that?

>>People from different parts of the world are quite different morphologically. How is it possible to exist on this planet for more than a day without seeing that?

I was referring to their classification. perhaps i misused the word morphological.
eliot stone
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1.1 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1 Suriname Red Tailed Boas
and always looking for more!

That is the truly important question! LOL.
I acquired two freshly imported Guyana Boas last year, one looks like the typical Guyana with the deep purple and Maroon colors and the other looks like the typical Suri with the silver/blue and bright red tail. Should I argure with the collector about the two? He did not get any more money for Suris then he did for Guyana Boas so why would he make it up. They are similar snakes that only differ slightly from each exterem location. The closer the two Locals come to each other the more they look alike?
But I was super excited when the collector told me that the would indeed interbreed with my pythons........
Thanks
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com