Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I do have a question though, I got him on Tuesday of this week, and ever since I got him he has literally done absolutely nothing. He wont eat, he ALWAYS sleeps, some times I have to make sure he is still alive. I am really worried! I would take a poop sample to the vet, but hence he has not eaten, so no fecal sample. I did bathe him, he was fine, of course he was sleeping the majority of the time. He did take a couple of drinks. Please help!! I'm wondering if he is going to make it at all? P.S. all temps are correct, substrate, feeding, everything is correct, his twin is doing fine, eating like there is no tomorrow.

Is he still in with the other beardie? If so, seperate them immediately.

He looks pretty skinny and dehydrated, i would give him warm water soaks a few times a day until he gets rehydrated. I would also try syringing him some pedilyte.
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

you should not have been sold a 4 week old baby. it is very stressful and many do not survive. babies should be at least 6 weeks old and 6" long. That being said, because of the stress of a new home many BDs will not eat for up to a week until they settle in. this is why it is so important they be extra healthy when you get them. Keep him hydrated, by bathing him in the morning for about 10 min or so every day.

unfortunately some peoples idea of "correct temps..." are not correct. not to doubt you but you should specify what they are along with everything else to avoid any misconceptions. Here are the questions you need to answer fully

How long have you had your BD?
How long have you had this problem?
Where did you get your BD (breeder, pet store, rescue…)?

How old is your BD?
How big is your BD (length, weight)?

How big is the enclosure?
What are the temps?
What type of lighting do you use?
What is the substrate?

What is your BDs diet? Be detailed here, type and size of food.
DO you supplement? If so what and how often?

When was your BDs last fecal?

Do you use any chemicals to clean the cage? If so what are they?

Answering these questions is a good starting point. Anytime you have a question about the health of your animal, this info should be included so you can get educated answers not a blind guess.

I also suggest you contact the breeder you purchased from to let them know there is a problem.

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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange

Nothing to add to the very comprehensive list of questions except to agree that 4 weeks is way too young to be sold. In addition to their fragility at this age and their vulnerability to the stresses of moving about, it is simply a sad fact of life that some babies don't make it. The younger they are when sold, the more likelihood there is that some number will fail to thrive or even die once purchased, not necessarily because of anything that you did or didn't do, but because they were weak specimins to begin with. Another sad fact that complicates this is that with the increase in bearded dragon breeders and sellers, there will be an increase in babies coming from less than optimal care and breeding and genetics.

I do hope your baby turns the corner and thrives, so if you can take some time to give a good picture of his condition and environment, hopefully you will get some informed tips and advice that will make this more likely.

I started bathing him twice a day yesturday, in luke warm water. Here are the questions you asked. Please let me know if anything im doing is wrong. Also here is a pic of him in his enclosure. and this is a 10 gallon.

How long have you had your BD? I have had them since Tuesday, 2/15/05
How long have you had this problem? Since I got him
Where did you get your BD (breeder, pet store, rescue…)? Breeder

How old is your BD? I was told they were both 4 weeks
How big is your BD (length, weight)? W: 3grams, L: 10 1/2 cm
(3 3/4 in.)

How big is the enclosure? 10 gl
What are the temps? 90F
What type of lighting do you use? 50W reflector bulb
What is the substrate? paper towels

What is your BDs diet? Be detailed here, type and size of food.
DO you supplement? If so what and how often? Variety of parsley, yellow squash, collard greens, and mustard greens, about once a week they all get a little tiny carrot, and some times they get a grape. For the two babies it is cut up half the size between their eyes, very very teeny.

When was your BDs last fecal? Very first day I got him, so Tuesday

Do you use any chemicals to clean the cage? If so what are they?
No I have not used chemicals yet, I replace the paper towels daily (he hasnt done anything)

90F is that the basking side or the cool side or is there no difference. Either way it needs to change. It is way to cool for to stimulate their appetite or to allow them to digest properly. Babies need temps between 105-115 leaning toward the hotter side. the cool side should be in the low 80s. Kina hard to get with a 10 gallon tank but possible. Babies that size rarely eat greens (parsley and carrots are high in oxalates, dont use it often). They need a high protien diet-crix, silkies and roaches. when they are young and especially when they are not eating, they need live prey! Some BDs will prefer one over the other and go after slow movers like roaches and silkies over crix.
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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange

You did not mention what kind of insects you are feeding. Hopefully you are feeding them insects, at this age beardies need to eat about 90% animal matter and 10% plant matter, they will eat more veggies as they get older. If you havent tried bugs yet this may be why they arent eating, try small crickets and mealworms.

Also you did not mention that you had a UVB light, although that probably is not the cause of the problems you will want to get one as it is imperative for long term beardie health.

hope everything works out ok...

good luck~
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

Gosh that's tiny.

Okay...well, to start with, although 10 gals is certainly adequate space size-wise, it is very hard to adequately heat-regulate a tank that size. Baby beardies need somewhat higher temps than adults can be happy with: 105-115 in the hottest basking spot right under the light and 80-85 ambient temps throughout the tank. Temps can go lower at night, but I do like to use a low-output undertank heater for night heat for fragile animals. Getting a basking spot up that hot makes the rest of a small tank too hot, too hot to be able to cool down when he wants. 90 degrees is not quite warm enough for a baby.

UV lighting is very important. Not only is light brightness important to appetite and feeding response, but they need the UV lighting to use calcium. Without it they are at risk for metabolic and deficiency disorders.

Soaking is good, like you are doing, to keep him hydrated. The lack of eating can certainly be due to the stress of moving. A baby so young (doesn't make me think much of the breeder for selling them so tiny) has no reserves to tide him over until acclimated, so he has emaciated pretty quickly.

Also, you did not mention any live foods (maybe it was an oversight?). Babies and juveniles must eat far more protein foods than they do veggies. What was the breeder feeding them? You need to get some tiny crickets (and I mean tiny, no bigger than the space between the dragons' eyes), feed them (gutload mix and the same veggies as your dragons) for 24 hours, dust them with some good quality reptile calcium and vitamins (Look for no-phosphorous brands when using crickets)before offering them, and offer them 3-5 times daily. Babies will eat their fill in about 10 minutes and as they grow, will eat more than you ever imagined possible. They won't start adding vegetable foods in any significant amount for another month or so, though you can certainly keep them offered, along with juvenile beardie pellets, daily. They should eat mostly protein foods for the first six months and then still daily for about the first year.

One risk in a baby this young is an anorexic cycle. Loss of appetite leads to such a decrease in metabolism that appetite and feeding response cannot recover and they can starve to death in front of their food.

Here is what I would attempt: first, increase cage size to about 20 gals for now. Make sure the temps right under the basking light are at the upper range and that he also has several hiding spaces throughout both the warm and cooler areas. Get good UV lighting on top. Cover the tank on at least three sides so that he feels more secure. Handle and look at him only when tending to him and try to do everything at once, several times a day. Soak him in warmed Pedialyte. Drop some on his nose. Will he drink? You can mash up moistened baby pellets, thin them with water and drop them also, or you can try chicken baby food thinned the same way. There are also food-replacement solutions available from your vet. Then, try offering a few of the tiny crickets. (Make sure anything he doesn't eat comes out right away. It is usually a good idea to remove cage furnishings for baby feedings, or use a separate container.) If he will eat, don't overload him right away. Let his digestive system build itself up again over several days before you offer a full meal. After that, let them eat all they want in about 10 minutes, again at least 3 times per day.

I would probably also get some probiotics for support of his digestive system. Acidophiliz and Bene-Bac are two brands. A few drops daily (The Acidophiliz is really good) will help.

Be patient, and be prepared. Hopefully he will turn around and regain his appetite and his health. However, keep in mind that some babies are too fragile, or may even suffer from some problem you cannot see, to thrive and live. Being sold so young was not your fault, but the stress of such is too hard on such a young animal.
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4.3 Bearded Dragons (Rescues)
1.0 Corn snake (Rescue)
0.1 California King
4.5 Royal (Ball) Pythons (3 rescues)
1.1 Dogs (Rescues)
2.0 Cats (Rescues)
2.2 Humans
No, it's NOT a big house

Sorry about that, yes I am feeding pinhead crix. twice daily. he doesnt eat those either. I heard taht for the babies you need the temp less or they will burn easier (frail skin?). Ill cahnge that though. Anyone know where I can get roaches or silkies?

Thanks a bunch everyone!!!!!!

You can find a wide variety of feeder insect sources here at Kingsnake:

http://www.kingsnake.com/breeder/insert.php?market=kingsnake§ion=food

Until you get him stabilized and feeding and growing on pinheads, don't try larger prey items. Good luck.

Hi,

You already have some good suggestions in the other responses. To play off what Altered Mind said, you can also try some baby food in a syringe which you can supplement before you give it to the dragon if you like (I use turkey and rice sometimes). You can offer it 2 or 3 times a day and just put a drop on his "nose" and wait till he licks it off. Give him as much as he will eat at one time.

Also, I agree, put the animal by himself to increase your odds of success.

Hydration is also really important. You can soak him like Altered Mind mentioned and also offer him water by dropping it onto his nose with a syringe or a spray bottle. Overall humidity in the room/retention of water within the cage is important too. If you live somewhere arid this issue can be pressing.

Often after a short period of time doting on him like this and making sure he is taking in food and water, given a reasonable environment, he will start to perk up and eat on his own.

It is hard to decide sometimes how long to baby the animal like this and when to cut the cord, offer them crickets and greens, and let them get hungry again until they finally start chasing them down/eating on their own. You will have to decide when that point is. I have had to do this recently with some of the non-thrivers I have here and that was exactly the way it played out. Doting on them for a week or so and then just leaving them be and offering them live food.

But, like Beardie Dragon mentioned, what are your conditions? A good hot spot is important for dragons of all sizes to be healthy, active and feeding but the dragon must be able to cool off too. Baby beardies will use hot spots at 120 (remember this is the hottest point in the light with a range of temperatures radiating out from there - the dragon can choose to get directly under it or any proximity to it) and even higher sometimes. I try and have the hot spot for my babies between 115 and 120.

Lastly, it is not uncommon to have thrivers and non-thrivers from the same clutch. I think this is normal and natural. I have animals from one clutch now kept in the same conditions (regarding temps, enclosure size, diet routine etc.) where some are huge monsters and some are little runts that have hardly grown a lick. In nature the runty ones would probably have been dinner already but they are in your home instead. So you are trying in some sense to escape the natural processes of biology/ecology. Which of course is fine. The animal may not be doing well for other reasons, but in my experience this scenario is common to all reptiles.

Best of luck to you,

Ian