Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I got this male F1 Montgomery Co., NC animal this fall from Scott Koonts who happens to live in Montgomery Co, NC. He hatched 9-14-2004 and is one of my best looking prospects. He is one of those snakes that seem to put all his growth into length rather than into fat or bulk. He is very strong but just lean and long. Anyway here is his growth chart to date. He seesm to be the fastest growing King I own (except my 2003 GA male). The ruler in the pic is 6" and he was measured using serpwidgets.

11-30-2004 – 15.28”
12-15-2004 - 16.21”
12-29-2004 - 16.95”
1-23-2005 – 18.57"
2-13-2005 - 19.68”

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Sweet looking snake Keith. How big are the ones you got from me?? The pair my buddy has from that clutch stopped feeding for about a month then took off feeding like mad and last I saw them the where little monsters. I am just curious how your are doing
Later Jason

Thanks he is a beauty. The pair I got from you are doing great and looking great as well. They have never slacked off eating. The male is around 21-22" but his growth has slowed and now he is starting to beef up ! The female is about as big as the Montgomery male. By my estimation the younger NC animal will pass up the other male in the next few months even they get the same amount of food.

Keith

>>Sweet looking snake Keith. How big are the ones you got from me?? The pair my buddy has from that clutch stopped feeding for about a month then took off feeding like mad and last I saw them the where little monsters. I am just curious how your are doing
>>Later Jason
>>
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Good to here Keith. The pair my buddy has are the abberants from that clutch and they where both given all the kull babies when available. I believe your male got a kulled corn or two as well. Anyway as I told you before I believe that the fresh out of the egg kulls give a huge jump to the kings. I would never feed healthy snakes to my easterns but that is just my stance on the activity. The abberant pair where around 20" last I knew and that is why I asked. I figured your pair would be bigger than the animal above but yeah they are a couple months older too.
Later Jason

Nice snake man.

I got an albino Cali King in December. I think he was an October hatch, not 100% sure though. Anyways, I got him in mid-December, he was around 12 inches in length, and not really thick. Well, I must be doing something right, because barely 2 months later and he is about 18-19 inches long, about half an inch thick, and eats pinky mice like there is no tomorrow.

Mike

Michael's Place

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Michael's Place has updated better caresheets
Helmz777@aol.com
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That's a great looking snake Keith, but your floor needs some work - lol.

Are you going to be up for some herping this year?
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Tim

LOL Thats a table I made in High School and my wife decided to use it for a place to rest her paint brushes!

Keith

>>That's a great looking snake Keith, but your floor needs some work - lol.
>>
>>Are you going to be up for some herping this year?
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>>Tim
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Here is a pic from 2 months ago. It shows his pattern a bit better.

Keith

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I have at least 5 Kings from 04 that are well over 100 grams and roughly 24 inches and a few Hondurans that are also quite large already. The biggest Honduran is over 24 inches and 145 grams at 6 months of age. I expect them to keep this pace seeing they are already reacting to the seasonal change that's creeping in slowly but surely here in TX. I expect many of these to be ready to breed in 06. Tom Stevens

WOW Tom sounds like you have some future Rat Wreckers on your hands. The Sept hatch male above isnt big in a freakish way but he has reached that size on just 2 pinks every 7 days, not too mention he didnt start feeding until October. The GA male I have on the other hand is a freak at over 45" now. What the difference is is that those first 6 months they explode with growth but he maintained that squiggly gotta get big growth pattern past that(this isnt a hard and fast rule). Seems like most Kings start to level off much like my other Kings have soon after 6 months, unless power fed. I was tempted to power feed the GA when I noticed how fast he was growing becuase he never put any weight on just length. To me thats a good indicator that snake is going to be rather large. His sister was the same size and got the same food as he did but she leveled off and started to bulk up and he zoomed past her. He right now could eat her sideways lol. So I just fed him normally and he still grew like a weed. Anyway Im babbling talk to you later.

Keith
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I always pay attention to the growth of the snake in 2 parts. The head and the body. If a snake is pounding food and growing long but the head looks mismatched proportion wise I cut back feedings. In the case of my huge Hondo his head is nice and stocky and his length and body weight all looks perfect. A friend stopped by yesterday and we took him out and my buddy freaked when I said he was only 6 months old. He seemed approaching 30 inches already. On the flip side I have a few 04s that are shrimpy. One was a slow starter and the other regurged a few times. An even better topic to further this one on will be to see how some of our smaller snakes turned out as far as catching up to the giant one.....I have seen it happen to the point where a pair was left in unmarked containers. I knew which sex they were due to one being much larger. Later in the season I was guessing which was which because they were so close to being the same size. And yet another topic could discuss the pinky vs fuzzy/ hopper meals. Everyone prefers to get thier snakes on fuzzies asap...it seems like a more substantial meal. However letting a snake go without food til it cant take it anymore and goes for a fuzzy can slow growth,,,,as opposed to giving it what it wants being 3-6 pinkies instead. Just food for thought. Tom Stevens

First its very basic. Reptiles do not have a set temperature to exsist.(like a mammal) They use a range of temps. Please keep this in mind.

What your seeing are telltail signs. When a reptile grows short and thick, it simply means it cannot get to the prefered temps. All colubrids and most reptiles normally grow long and thin.(for the species) Then bulk out when they reach sexual maturity.

Please consider, because your snakes are feeding a growing, they are close. So your temps are not that far off. Remember, the difference between nature and captivity is basically a lack of options. In other words, we restrict their choices.

Todays average cage is very, middle of the road. That is, they are small and offer only medium temps. They are normally to small to achieve a wider range.(rack systems etc.) Reptiles normally pick extremes for specific purposes. Heat for expending energy, like digesting food, growing, shedding, and some stages when gravid. And of course to heal injuries. They choose cool to conserve energy and conserve moisture. Again simply put, obtain energy and conserve it for specific purposes. I hope you understand. I have found most kingsnakes use a range of, 45-65F cool end, 85-100F hot end. Those are year around. Thanks FR

Thanks for the post. I had been wondering about temperature ranges for the kings. My 50/50 Cal female seems to be very comfortable wherever she is in her house. I have a heat pad underneath and a large piece of gem rock (phrenite)on top of the spot in the tank and one of her favorite spots is on top that rock which is nice and warm...HH

Ya know here in Texas...my snake room would overheat if I did not run an AC[the room is in my garage]. So I end up having heat tape on one end of the cage almost all year round,,,,and the AC keeps the ambient room temp cool. Most of my snakes grow at an astounding rate. It is something I love to see....it tells me they're thriving and all glow of health. In the case of my Speckled Kings I simply chose to reduce the food I was offereing because i had feared of a blockage. I did soak 2 of them which did result in some fecal matter being expelled. After this instance...which was during winter, I put them on a 1 pinky a week diet when they could easily devour 4 to 6. On this lean diet they have grown lengthwise and slimmed down. Now that spring is in the air I can see their ravenous nature coming through and I will up the feedings....but will monitor them closely to make sure there's nothing going on I need to be aware of. When in doubt of anything health related I keep my snakes on paper towel or newspaper substrate. I occasionally work with temps to experiment but since many other Kings and colubrids are doing perfectly fine I leave it be for the most part. I have read your talk of what most people feel is extreme temperature wise. I think it is a misconception that temps can never rise above a certain degree[meaning a hot spot...not entire cage temp] and also feel the same about cold. What it boils down too is I'd bet the majority of us run many cages off of a single thermostat. I know I do, however I try to work with snakes that would find my rooms temps not only acceptable, but optimum. In other words there's some snakes I really would like to work with,,,,,but I will not get into any of them because I know I will have to make adaptations for them to thrive like the rest of my collection. If possible could you please email me privately at NokturnelEclipse@aol.com. There's something I could really use your advice on that I'd like to discuss off the forums Thanks Tom Stevens

Yep I understand the whole thermoregulation and keeping temp gradients etc... What I have been keeping these Kings at are 85 to a coolside of 74. The animals in question that some are growing longer and faster are all on the same shelf w/ the exact same temps. Your temp gradient sounds good but the space needed would have to be pretty large I would imagine. How do you achieve it ? What size cages do you use. Thanks for the info Frank.

P.s. Did you read my ramblings on my 45" 2003 Eastern King ? For the first 11 months it was alive it had temps of a solid 83 degree's with hardly much of a cool area excpet I dropped the temps at night about 4 degree's (except on the day of and after feeding). Now he has the above mentioned temp gradient. Ive raised 100's of Kings and Ive never seen one get this big this fast. My guess is its not only Temps but genetics play a big role as well.

Regards,

Keith Hillson

Here is a pic of him from a couple of months ago.

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