Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I put a post on the breeding side of this as well to get everyone's opinion on this subject because I'm new to owning any kind of lizard and I can't find anyone around here to help me. I bought a snow leopard gecko just before Christmas last year to go with my male albino because he was jealous after I was given a pair of bearded dragons. I bought her from a great pet store she'd been starved and is missing toes because of her former owner. They were fine up until about a month ago when I noticed he was acting out of character by wanting out of the tank a lot. I finally noticed that he stopped eating, that he was sleeping in the corner where they use the bathroom and that she was picking on him constantly. I seperated them but he still wants to be with her so I'm not sure if she's just mean in general or if she's got eggs on the way because she's pretty fat around the stomach but I don't see any eggs. I'd appreciate any help. Sorry for such a long post

LOL.... It is so funny how some people try to humanize their leos.....LOL.... Your leo was not jealous because you got bearded dragons and it does not need the company of another leo.... And they are not like human women when they are pregnant..... They dont become mean....LOL It is a leopard gecko, not a complex human being....LOL GET A GRIP!!!!!!!!!!

n/p
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brandy

Since when is the truth mean????

it may be the truth. but i dont think it was called for. this person came here seeking help from thoses of you that are more experenced. instead of being judgmentel and mean you should educate this person and they would be more likely to learn from there mistakes and there animals would have a better life.
IMHO. -brandy
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brandy

If he doesn't want another gecko around then why does he look for her? Also if he wasn't jealous then why did he all of a sudden start asking to come out of his tank because I took my bearded dragons out of theirs? We're all animals just because we have a different mannor and dialect doesn't mean that we're not. I know my animals quiet well and the only time my male asks to come out of the tank is after he see's my bearded dragons out. Don't tell me to get a grip because you don't know my animals like I do. I've been told that both my geckos have a strange personality by someone that has over 60 reptiles of their own. If you're just out to repremand me for the way my animals act then don't bother responding because you didn't help one bit with my problem.

OK. im not trying to be mean at all. so if i sound like it im sorry. heres the deal. the reason your leo is looking for another leo is because when he saw her it probably triggered an instinct in him to try and breed and now he is looking for her since you took her out. Your leo cannot be jealous of your bearded dragons. im sorry but they do not have the higher cognitive functions that humans have such as emotions. they use instinct. now to answer your question about your female. if you post a picture of her belly on this forum then maybe someone could help you figure out whether or not she is pregnant. there should be 2 lumps on the side of her abdomen if she is pregnant. if shes not she may not be ovulating but if they male is persistantly trying to mate with her then she could be irritated with him and thats why she is mean. or she could be a "hot" female. I hope this helps.

As I said before they were fine when I first put her in there and he didn't start wanting out of his tank until I brought the bearded dragons home but thats beside the point. Both my male and female have odd personalities. I really don't care if they breed or not I just want them to be happy. I'm just happy that she has a better life now than her other home where she was starved and had bad sheds. I've been looking at her stomach to see if I can see eggs and all I see is a couple of pale spots so I'm not sure if thats normal or if its eggs. She's been testing the sand in the corners of her tank but my male digs in his tank too. I tend to stay up until odd hours of the morning so I'm awake when they are and I never saw him bothering her or trying to do anything as far as breeding. As you said she might be a hot female because I just checked her and I still don't see any thing that looks like eggs. I still only see the pale spots on her stomach. I appreciate the help since these are my first reptiles.

I pointed out your problem..... You are humanizing your animals and causing the problems yourself.... They do not need company, they do not get jealous, and they do not "ask" to be taken out of their cages....LOL.... THEY ARE REPTILES, not people.... They do not have human emotions..... People need to understand how these animals work before they go out and buy them...... Your reptiles run on INSTINCT.... This is one of the craziest things I have heard here in a while..... Oh yeah, I taught one of my leos to fetch mealworms.... The only problem is everytime she goes to get one she eats it for some reason.....LOL..... Leopard geckos are not people.... They do not need what we need...... And please stop confusing personality with individual instinctive behavior....

Apparently you don't know what animals are like and you treat them as if they aren't intelligent at all. Animals have more intelligence than you know its not always an instinct. Its like saying humans only do things on instinct because we're also animals. All animals have a personality no matter what kind they are so don't tell me that my animals don't and that they're not intelligent creatures because I know better. You need to realize that you're animals are more than likely smarter than you are because you doubt their level of intelligence. You're the one that needs to do the research on animal behavior not me.

Again, you are saying that they have personalities... This is a false statement..... Your leos do not like or dislike you, they tolerate you..... Trust me, I need no education on reptile behavior.... They are not emotional animals.... They do not need eachothers company and the ABSOLUTLY do not need your company..... All they want to do is eat, sleep, and breed.... Kinda like me....LOL..... Do you think that you have leos that are any different from anyone elses???? Well sorry to be the one to tell you, but you dont..... As for how my animals are cared for, I give them every thing they need to live long lives in captivity.... They do not need me to reassure them in any way..... All I need to do is give them a proper diet and give them the proper environment to live in..... What makes you think they are more inteligent than me or any other COMPLEX being???? Have they beat you in a game of chess????

Ok here is my point again....
Do your research and learn to not humanize your reptile pets... Thinking that they are on the same evolutionary level as we are can prove to be dangerous to your pet and yourself....

I have a completely different point of view on that. All animals have their own personalities, even fish. Just because their brain structure is not the same as a human does not mean they aren't all different and don't have any emotions. Besides, even if your side is the truth, it's no fun just thinking of your pets as almost robotic with preprogrammed thoughts. I treat all my animals as though they were a member of my family and I think because I do that, both of us lead happier and healthier lives. And some of the reptiles I've had have had more personality than most humans that I've been around.
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~*Chibi*~
Sir Iggy ( 1.0.0 El Salvador Blue Iguana), Ryo-ohki, Orion, Bud, & Finnegan (3.1.0 crazy kitties), Rosebud (0.1.0 cockerspaniel), and Kayko (0.0.1 leopard gecko)

this girl is asking for help not to be made fun of. if she feels that her geckos have emotions then thats her choice. i too beleaive that all animals have emotions to some point. my bearded dragon and my mali uromastyx will greet me when ever they see me. yes that is because they see me as a food source and because they want to be let out of the cage. who knows if they "like me" but my iguanas will follow me around and as soon as i sit down will be on my lap with there heads in the air wanting to be petted on the head. and i know that they "like me" i can tell. maybe she has that same conection with her gecko. i dont think its funny i think its sweet that she loves her animals as if they were part of her family. everyone feels differently about this subject. sorry this is so long i just cant stand it when people think that they know everything and put people down because they dont agree with them. i think its childish
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brandy

I'm tired of being attacked by the ingnorant so I'm just not going to respond to your comments anymore because arguing with the ignorant is like arguing with a brick wall its not going to get me anywhere. As far as I'm concerned giving your animals just enough to live isn't right at all because everything needs love not just care. As for the person that stuck up for me thank you I really appreciate it. My animals enjoy the love that I give them and I treat them all like they're my children. As long as my animals are healthy and happy it shouldn't be anyone's concern if I treat them as if they're people. True I might not know anything about breeding them but thats not why I got them. I don't get animals to make money off of them I get animals because I enjoy their company. You know we all have to start somewhere when we learn things its not like you knew everything when you got your first reptile and no one knows everything thats why we ask for help so its like many parents say to their children if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all or you can do this if you don't like what I have to say then don't respond to me or anything that I post.

no problem. i dont have any geckos im just here doing my research before i get one but i own other reptiles. i would keep them in different cages for two reasons. 1 breeding. and two for the safty of the male that is being picked on. are you positive they are not two males? it was very nice of you to take in the female and give her a loving home. from what i know you should only keep the male and female together for breeding purposes. and seperate when she has eggs anyway so she is not overly stressed by the male trying to breed with her over and over again. hope this helped a litte.
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brandy

nicole one word for you is WOW you think gecko's have emotions and whoever said my iguana's like me and i know you like me is als hilarious. "Oh yeah, I taught one of my leos to fetch mealworms.... The only problem is everytime she goes to get one she eats it for some reason.....LOL..... " ROTFL
Nicole you say you treat your geckos like they are your children LOL. Nicole i wouldn't be surprised if you made a little bed with a pillow and blanket for the leo's and brought their tanks to the dinner table and ate with them. You sound a little crazy! I agree with gregg
Nicole what did you get your leo's for V-daY?
DO your leo's have a bed time? What happens if they look at you wrong do you ground them? Let me guess they talk to you too rite?

N/P
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brandy

Just to answer your question, yes the geckos talk to her. Didn't you hear her, it told her he wanted held. LMAO

yeah some people are like that here. they just always make fun of people for what they think or they just critisize about a question someone asked. its pretty sad. they just think they are better then everyone else because they have been into leos longer and dont ask any questions.

i dont think they are smart at all. they were beginners at some point too. they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
your right it is sad this is a place for people to come and learn and make friens not to be put down
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brandy

eom
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1.0.0 Double Het Patternless Albino Leopard Gecko 'Yoshi'
0.1.0 Patternless Albino Leopard Gecko 'Miso'
1.0.0 Beagle 'Tigger'
0.1.0 Jack Russell 'Roo'
2.0.0 Guinea Pigs 'Millhouse and Ralph'
1.0.0 Hamster 'Fluff'
1.0.0 Husband

WOW i just realized something, did you ever quarantine the gecko before you introduced it to your male?

Well after reading all your post i just got to ask you this, do you go to a psychiatrist for some sort of psychiatric problem? No offense but you act like that person that was on american idol (the crazy one that had multiple personalities and after the judges basically said she sucked she was like, but the voices in my head tell me im good, I AM GOOD). I really think YOU are the one that needs to go do your research, not Greg. Hes been keeping reptiles for a farrrr longer time than you have, and what he says is correct. If reptiles are actually more intelligent than he is then i pity him, when he just keeps bumping into my hand trying to find a way around it (like one of my geckos did), that is the time i'll pity the him the greatest... But for you i think your just jealous because your gecko really did beat you in chess.

I tried not but I just busted out laughing out loud at this post. Its truly funny how some people come up with theories of their own.

Do we have a reality dr. dolittle on our hands people?

oh jeeze! you people need to grow up. she onely stated that her animals have emotions and personalities. all animals do. have you ever had a dog? shes not saying she speaks to them and they talk back. you need to look at yourselves and stop getting off on trying to make people look stupid. why is it so hard to be nice and polite these days?
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brandy

omg you guys are pithetic. is this what makes you feel good about yourselves? making fun of someone asking a question because she is new to leopard geckos? and then insulting her intelligence because she said that animals have personalities?
you people make me sick.

Although i do agree with Gregg 100%

i really think many of you could have handled this in a much more mature way..

Nicole, leopard geckos no not feel the same emotions that humans do, the male was not jealous of the dragons, like someone pointed out, he smelled the female and his instincts kicked in what you noticed was just a coincidence, when he is up against the glass trying to climb up it..it does not men he wants to come out and be held, it means he wants to get out and away from where he is period, females do not express pre menstral stress like human women do..or else no one would want to breed them LOL sorry i couldnt resist that one, lol

the bullying is somthing that happens, it could have been for food, for a hiding space, or because he was trying to breed with her and she didnt want to, leos are solitary animals that really do not enjoy the company of another gecko, unless its a horny male and a females that loves to breed..which is rare..

if you cannot see any eggs in her belly, then there is a chance that she is not gravid, just because he belly is a bit plumb doesnt always mean she's carrying eggs, if you can post a picture of the females belly we can surely tell you if she is or not

some of you guys should actually try helping out rather than constantly making fun of people, when you help out and the person and or gecko benefits from it, it makes you feel good about yourself

i still agree with gregg 100% though
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Dan Quinn
Manhattan Herps

its not that i dont agree with gregg its just that he could have said it with out making fun of her. along with the other people. i know that geckos dont have the same emotions as humans but i believe that they do have personalities. but anyway i just think that they shouldnt have made fun of her just because she is new to leopard geckos and doesnt know as much about them as us. it just doesnt give people the right to be jerks.

This did get a bit out of hand..... Although I think it is a bit "off" to think reptiles act, think, feel, or behave like complex mamals, it is not nice to say someone is crazy or needs help..... It is fine to make a joke here and there but some of the post were down right mean..... I do not think my post were mean...... They were informative and written in a joking manner..... Anyone who thinks my post were mean, needs to grow a thicker skin..... Anyway guys and girls, I am all for joking around and having fun, but lets try to not hurt peoples feelings while we do it..... I have been guilty of doing it at times but now I try to control myself even though I want to snap sometimes....LOL

i agree that was just plain mean and very uncalled for. i think that all animals have a personality all there own. one of my females loves to be picked up (most people say that they don't like to be held) when i stick my hand in she climbs up even if i don't want her to. why even post if you are going to be so rude, she posted to try and get help or advice.
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4.8.4 leopard geckos
1.0.0 cat (storm)
0.0.1 green tree frog
1.1.0 anole
0.0.1 tokay gecko
1.2.0 kingsnakes
0.1.0 cornsnake
mutiple cichlids

I beg to differ with you on this one point. I do have one female that has a definate change in attitude when she gets a little "heavy with child" lol so to speak. She is paired with another female and the two have been together for years w/o incident. When she gets ready to lay, the squabbles start. (nothing major that I need to seperate them, but they usually climb all over each other!)She also gets kinda moody w/me, getting particular about holding out for waxworms (which she gets when she lays IN the box) and just generally being a little more high strung.
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1.0 Blizzard Bill
1.0 Hypo stripe, Het Rainwater from JL (BJ)
1.0 HypoTang from Crested (Apricot)
1.0 Tremper Albino (Cloud)
0.2 Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Pepper, Goldie-now w/SD)
0.1 Normal (Freckles)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 Tangy Mutt Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.1 Tremper Albino (Leucy)
RIP Peaches, Ghost
3 eggs a-cookin'

I have seen the behavior you have seen too but again, it is instinctive behavior..... She wants to be alone to test dig and to lay her eggs..... She is not mad..... It is not natural for another leo to be around her when she is about to lay eggs and she is reacting in an instinctive way not an emotional way..... I wish this thread did not get so out of hand and I opologize to Nicloe if I hurt her feelings......

OK, well, I'm gonna pull a gregg here (j/k) and say, I have a right to say she is being hormonal, which I'd argue actually lies somewhere between instinct and higher cognition.

Unless you'd like to argue that you have 1st hand experience with this?
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1.0 Blizzard Bill
1.0 Hypo stripe, Het Rainwater from JL (BJ)
1.0 HypoTang from Crested (Apricot)
1.0 Tremper Albino (Cloud)
0.2 Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Pepper, Goldie-now w/SD)
0.1 Normal (Freckles)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 Tangy Mutt Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.1 Tremper Albino (Leucy)
RIP Peaches, Ghost
3 eggs a-cookin'

Pull a Gregg??? Was that a cheap shot???? LOL

Okay, I went through this whole post and it reminds me of how hard a person can be on a newby. I do think though that Nicole is over exagerating that her animals "talk to her" and that they are "smarter" than humans. I don't believe that humans are animals. I treat my geckos and all my pets with love and treat them like my "kids" (since I don't have kids..lol) to a certain point. There's a difference between getting a gecko and just keeping it and getting a gecko and taking care of it and loving it. Your male is probably just looking for the female that he smells in the cage. I doubt he's lonely without the female or jealous becouse of your beardies. My geckos will come out of their hides and come to teh side fo the tank when I walk in but I think it's mkore of a "FEED ME!" than "please hold me, I love you". Just my two cents. If you have any more questions feel free to email using the link in my sig. TYYL!
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Katie F.
Peach State Geckos
Breeding Mealworms
My Email

wow i should have read the entire thread, there are a lot nasty people on this forum. no where in the post did nicole say that she talks to her animals. you people really need to grow up (you know who you are). i would also like to say that there are a lot of people on the forum who are very helpful and not judgemental, i have learned a lot about leos from asking questions and reading posts of people who care about leos enough to take the time out of there lifes to help people out. you nasty people take away from that everytime you act like idiots. at least greg was man enough to apologise (he was not as bad as some of the other people)
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4.8.4 leopard geckos
1.0.0 cat (storm)
0.0.1 green tree frog
1.1.0 anole
0.0.1 tokay gecko
1.2.0 kingsnakes
0.1.0 cornsnake
mutiple cichlids

I have to say that some of the people on here were very rude and I talk to my animals but I never said that they talk back because they don't. If you'd pay closer attention my male started wanting out of the tank months before I ever got him a female. If he could smell my bearded dragon female all the way in a seperate room then he has a damn good nose considering the fact that I also have two dogs and a parrot. As I said before I've discussed their behavior with someone that has over 60 reptiles in their home and deals with different kinds on a daily basis but doesn't have geckos so I thought that I'd come here and get some help but apparently some people aren't mature enough to actually help they just prefer to be jerks, which is fine by me because I've dealt with people like that all my life and they'll get theirs in the end. Like a few people said we all have to start somewhere and we all have to learn but some people like some of the people here prefer to ridicule rather than help because they think that they're better than other people well those people can kiss my rear because I don't need them.

Sorry this is so long i tried to get as much information as i could that you need to know about raising possibly hatchling geckos. hope this helps

OK. First thing you need to either look up pictures and compare them to your female to find out if she is pregnant or you need to take a picture and post it so that some of the nicer more experienced people on this board can tell you what is going on with your female.

secondly. what is your cage setup like. If you dont have one you NEED and i mean absolutly NEED to build a humid hide. IF your female is pregnant (the pale spots could be the beginnings of eggs) you need the humid hide for her to lay the eggs in. the sand in your tank (i think you said sand but maybe im mistaken) is not good enough. also you need to build or buy an incubator to incubate the eggs or they will all die.

thirdly (i think its third) if your male and female did in fact mate while they were together you need to be prepared for a lot of eggs. although they usually only lay two eggs per clutch they can retain the males sperm for up to one year i think.

OK the easiest way to make a humid hide is to get a gladware container cut a hole in the top or side (preferribly side because humidity can escape the top easier) and put either moss, perelite, or vermiculite in there to retain the moisture. (not paper towl because the female will want to bury the eggs). as far as transporting and incubating the eggs if you get them someone else will probably have to help you there. i have never bread leos and so dont know all that much about it but everything here i learned on this board.

lastly. please dont leave there is no reason to. although many people on this post for some reason was very hostile i have found more about leos on this board than anywhere else. its a great place for some great information.

anyone else add on or correct what i have said please

Thank you for the information. I already have her a place to lay eggs she's very happy with it as she's constantly going in it to check it out. I used perlite which is what I was told to use for her to lay her eggs in I make sure I wet it before I go to bed and when I get up. I also make sure that there isn't extra water in the container. I have an incubator ready if she lays eggs and I know how to move them as well. I also know the temps to incubate the eggs. I'll get a picture of her as soon as I can. We just got a new computer and are still in the process of setting it up so the picture will take a little time. I have picture of my male on my other computer which I will transfer over as soon as possible and I'll post some pictures of my male (Mr. G) and yes the female is (Mrs. G). I do know for a fact that my female is female I checked her myself and she was checked before I got her at the pet store. I know that they're both leopard geckos but I'm not even sure if I can breed them because she's a snow and he's an albino I don't know exactly how that works because I do know that in some species you can't cross breed certain types. True I might not know much about lizards but at least I'm willing to learn so that I keep my animals healthy and happy.

if i were you or anyone else i would not use perlite as my egg laying medium..icubation medium yes, but not for her to lay in, it comes from Lava if i am not mistaken, and her ingesting it may cause some serious problems

the best egg laying medium to go with it either sphagnum pet moss, or you can go to your local pet store and ask for bed-a-beast or eco earth, its grounf up coconut figer and better for her to lay the eggs in

also, if she came from a pet store she is most likley not a snow, pastel leos are common, that is what she may be

pastel x albino would give you normal babies that are het for albino, since pastel is not recessive

trust me on this info, i've been keeping leos for many years, and herps for over 12 years
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Dan Quinn
Manhattan Herps

some of my females laying in eco-earth

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Dan Quinn
Manhattan Herps

I would def go with what Dan said about the perlite..... It is not a good humid hide/egg laying box substrate..... But it works great for an incubation substate..... Also, as long as both of your leos are leos, it does not matter what recessive trait you breed together.... In other words your snow CAN breed with your albino but all of your babies will appear to look normal..... All of them however will be het for albino....

k

She's either a snow or a regular Leopard Gecko. I did the research myself after I got her to find out what she was and at the time she looked like a snow but she's gotten darker since then so I'm leaning more towards a regular Leopard Gecko. Her body shape is like the top picture. She's kind of thin towards the front and bulging in the back thats why I think she might have eggs but I can't see anything. I was told to use perlite so I didn't know and since I know now I'll change it because I don't want her to ingest it. I prefer to keep anything toxic away from my animals but I didn't know that it was toxic to them since thats what I was told to put in her nesting box. I really appreciate all the suggestions. If I can't find anything that you guys suggest I'll probably end up sticking with wet sand because its hard to find anything around here since I really don't know the area all that well. Thanks for the help and I'll post pic's of her and him when I get a chance to take some.

heres a picture that might help

also, if you did not know, then dont sweat it, you know now

you can find peat moss at a plant nursery, if you've got any of those around there, the coco hust substrstes come in compressed bricks, i dont think i've ever been to a pet store that didnt carry ground up coco fiber..

anyway, here is that picture

you can clearly see the 2 ovals on each side, the pink coloration in the middle is her ovulating, usually when you see this it means they are going to drop their eggs any day now, after this pic was taken a couple days later she laid, and the those eggs are due to hatch today
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Dan Quinn
Manhattan Herps

what about carefresh, it s a shredded paper product if you squeeze all the water out it retains enough moisture to make it humid but not to much. anyone heard anything about it or had any experiences with it.
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4.8.4 leopard geckos
1.0.0 cat (storm)
0.0.1 green tree frog
1.1.0 anole
0.0.1 tokay gecko
1.2.0 kingsnakes
0.1.0 cornsnake
mutiple cichlids

CareFresh is not a paper product.... It is a wood pulp product..... It also has a tendancy to dry animals out rather than keep them humidified.... I would also not use wet sand....