Reptile & Amphibian Forums

has anyone produced the "super" yet and is it indeed a blue eyed lucy???

n/p
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John Light
JL Exotics
Contact Me
Web Site

Hi,

I thought I read on Morph King's website that they hatched the lucy from a mojave x lesser (or the other way around). I may be wrong and if so, please let me know. Thanks.

Will

Earlier in the season MKR hatched leucistics from Lesser Platinum X Mojave and then late they hatched leucistic(s?) from Mojave X Mojave.

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

being a dead end morph, value on this white snake will drop like a ton of bricks faster then any other.

Why would you think that this is a dead end morph? It will be as strong as any other morph. How many are in collections now? not many. How many collecters would like one in their collection? Many. Give it time. Pastels only started as pastels, how many varients are there now?
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Take Care
David
My Email
www.prehistoricpets.com

Don't get me wrong here bud! I think they are awsome looking!

Look at it this way, almost everyone has pastels and they can still be crossed to all other morphs.

What cross can be done with a lucy? A red eyed lucy maybe! what else?

They are beautiful but not much more can be done with them, hence dead end project...

I tend to agree with you. But, also had another thought. Just to keep it simple I won't include every combo that makes white snakes. Just use Mojaves since that's the topic. A mojave x mojave will produce Lucys. If you then breed the Lucy("super" mojave) to say a pastel, you'll produce mojaves and pastel mojaves. Of course the future combo would end up being a Pastel Lucy....which should appear as nothing more than a Lucy....dead end! But, your going to produce more mojaves using a Lucy in your breedings than using a Mojave(het lucy). I think the demand will stay high longer than we might think since this will be the case, and regardless that a lucy clown, lucy pied, lucy whatever is only going to look like a lucy, I know I'd still love to own one, and look forward to one day being lucky enough to have that opportunity. If I have something mixed up, please tell me! Take care!

Paul

Paul,

I agree with everything you said but would like to add a little to what you touched upon......Everyone everywhere wanted the "White Snake"...Now that we have the Lucy where do we go from here? It is interesting because the end result will always be a white snake....In my mind while it is a GREAT project it is a dead end one at the same time....Not dead end in the fact that people will not benefit but in the sense of there can be no Lucy pastel, no Lucy spider..You get my point....Great post.....I always enjoy what you have to say (most of the time).....

Russ Lockenwitz
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Russ Lockenwitz
RL Reptiles
http://www.visioncages.com

well all the "dead end" believers do me a favor and tell EVERYONE not to buy them and or breed for them ill be more then happy to produce more and more each yeah starting next ......im not selling any mojave females or lucys when the time comes until i can produce a good amount of them and then i move on.......oh dear i hope its not dead by then and i have to give them away ........maybe ill go back to normals since the possabilities are so endless

I am not refering to the Lucy as a "DEAD END" in the sense you all are implying....I was simply saying that it can not and will not produce anything other then a white snake......And for all those that care I have Mojaves......3 of them to be exact so don' think I am on the outside looking in without knowing what it takes to get nice animals and put up the cast!

RL
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Russ Lockenwitz
RL Reptiles
http://www.visioncages.com

The blue eyed lucy IS a beautiful snake no doubt. The thing is there are a few morphs that will produce it. Mojave's, plattys, phantoms, butters ect.
The price aint gonna crash on these things for a while, how many people have the above list of snakes in their collections?? Not too many. How many people want them?? A: Every cat an his dog!
Not everyone with the above morphs will have a pair so cant try for lucys. Many people will be putting lone mojaves ect into spiders, pastels ect.
I belive the price of lucys will drop in time but a lucy is a super dont forget, so buy a male lucy from a mojave/mojave breeding an breed it to norm females you will get all mojaves, which is not a bad thing. Put that lucy into a hypo an you got a full cluch of mojave het hypo. Supers hold their value, just look at super pastels.
Somone mentioned it is a dead end, which to me is bull. its like bedding cindy crawford and moaning that shes got a mole on her face! Snake breeders have been waiting forever for a way to produce lucys an within a year people are [bleep]ing that its a dead end!! Its true the possibilities of the lucy combo arnt too apparent right now(The scales in a lucy a defctive and cannot hold colour,) the eyes still contain colour. So maybe a pastel lucy will have green eyes?? Which would be an awesome snake. Future breedings will show if somthing will come out of a lucy cross. I think there will always be somthing new around the corner.

Exiteing aint it!!??

I'm so tired of people whining & [bleep]ing about the lucy being a "dead end" morph..... SO WHAT? What, not satisfied with a pure white snake that is absolutely stunning? Why does every morph need to be able to cross with some other? Believe it or not, there will be an end/limit to all the possibilities of every morph that's able to cross with another. So what then... [bleep] & moan about those end results? Just be glad that we're even able to mix & match all the different mutations out there.

Alright... done venting.....

Eric

Good point, a day will come when all crosses are made, agreed, but not in our life time...

go play with your lesser. That will cheer you up. Send me payment for "cheer up bill"

GOD Bless
Andre

LOL... Thanks Andre, I'm cool. It's all good.

Eric

how many albinos had been sold LONG before ther even was another morph so at the time one would think dead end right ........but they were bought quicker then they could have been produced and at least now i dont have to lay out the money or trade anything to get a platty male for my mojave females now ive got what it takes right here for ol whitey....im not worrying about it being a dead end ...ill get my money back from my original male mojave many many times over.....

i do agree fully that the price will drop quickly but thats the game........first offered are expensive but gives the buyers the chance to get a good head start on the project.......i could be a millionaire and never pay 75,000 for an ivory or any of those crazy numbers we are seeing these days........but tell me whats wrong with producing a few dozen of anything worth between 5-10 thousand a peice......do the math .....sell one at some crazy number or sell many at a fraction .......it all works out to getting paid........best of luck to all

"being a dead end morph, value on this white snake will drop like a ton of bricks faster then any other."

Piebald mojave producing pied mojaves and lucys
Carmel albino mojave
Albino mojave
Lav. Albino mojave
albino piebald mojave.........

You could go on forever and the best part about it is you get lucys every now and then with all those genetics in them! A white snake that produces 2 or 3 different morphs........whats dead end about it?

Don't get me wrong...I'm loving the Ball Market right now and that certainly ads some exceitment to a clutch hatching........But, I see myself as a collector/Breeder. Despite the prices, I want every flavor on the menu....just to have them. It would be amazing to have a collection that represents most if not all the different ball mutations. The money is great, but I hope that most people are in this because these snakes are amazing....with old blue eyed Lucy being at the top of the list! Yes, it will have less breeding option as some other mutation, however, the blue eye lucy will be a absolute must for any collectors. What does scare me a bit is that I fear there may be more investors then collectors....
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

Years ago I bred corn snakes and my goal was to produce pairs that where capable of producing every known mutation (i.e. high order hets). Sometimes I feel like a bit of a sellout for jumping to ball pythons but maybe some day they will make me enough money to be able to afford the decades long project to produce that $50 cornsnake pair lol.

So, does anyone ever ask themselves, why are ball python morphs so expensive. After all you can get every corn snake morph for about the price of a couple of normal balls. I think there will be a ball python morph market for years to come, but I have a hard time believing it is sustainable at this level. What reasons are there that ball morphs will continue to be more expensive than morphs of any other reptile? I know that there are more ball morphs each year and tons of different combo's to be made, but the same is true for some other snake and reptile species (to varying degrees).

In the end I keep coming to the same answer in my head....
CBB ball pythons make awesome pets. They grow to the perfect size, they can live almost as long as you, their breeding lifetime is 30 years, you can leave on vacation for two weeks to a month and they will forgive you (unlike some dogs I've known), they almost never bite (again, unlike some dogs I've known and many snake species), they will eat almost anything you have available (rodent wise), most of them don't mind or even like being handled, they are good looking, and they are easy to take care of. Also, I guess the fact that they don't lay very many eggs and only after 2-3 years and then not every year after that plays into the high demand a little.

Beyond that, anyone else have any ideas as to what really makes the ball python market so special? Does there need to be anything else?

They are very popular and frankly, their popularity will grow even further. Their size and demeanor make them so manageable as a pet. Yet...you get the exotic african snake feel with the thickness of their bodies. Everyone has a favorite flavor so to speak.....My problem is I have tooooo many favorites. For me the detailed process of breeding is as fun as the animal themselves. It's like jacking with your fishing gear and organizing your box in anticipation for the actual catching of the fish.

Prices won't go down any time soon.....the market has a ton of life left. I'm totally cool with it...we can all benefit from it and have a great time doing it. I love the fact that I can't afford some of the current mutation....it just builds my anticipation for landing one. It forces me to be patient and produce one or fork out some nice cash for it. If every mutation cost 50 bucks and I instantly had them all tomorrow...It would be great but I don't think I would appreciate it as much.

I love the high prices....I love the healthy market....it will be here for some time to come. Like I'm sure many of us are doing....I spend a lot of time thinking about how I can get the next morph on my list.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

I think the ball python morph demand is certainly there for all the reasons you mentioned (i.e. slow and deliberate small stocky exotic python feel etc.).

I think the supply of ball python morphs is limited by the facts that they are relatively new (the first albino corn was in the 1950's I think, the first albino ball about 13 years ago) and not very prolific. I had 2 year old corn females double clutching and producing 30 babies. I have a coming 6 year old ball python female I hope to get my first clutch out of this year. I've had others do better but my average is still 3 or 4 years. A lot of that has to do with my feeding situation. I could feed the corns frozen/thawed mice as often as I had time. I have to purchase live rats for the balls on a budget and meet my rat breeder at most once a week. Not all my ball python girls produce every year and when they do it doesn't begin to stack up to the numbers of double clutched corns with 2nd clutches bigger than I've yet gotten from a ball.

Corns stink more too but I at least they eat reliably. They are really a cool snake, just quite different and hence a different market.

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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com