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I recently purchased a milksnake that was sold to me as a pueblan milksnake. However, I have owned a pueblan milk snake before and this one looks different. The white and black bands on this guy are significantly thinner than that of the pueblan I used to have. I suspect that this guy might be a Sinaloan milksnake instead, but I am unsure of how to tell. Are there any morphological variations between the pueblan milk and sinaloan milk that would help me make a positive taxonomic ID?

It has:
Thick red bands
Thin black bands
Thin white Bands (w/ a hint of peach/yellow)
White on its lower jaw (w/ a hint of peach/yellow)
A black head
Each band fails to connect beneith the ventral side of the snake

Any information would be greatly apprechiated!

>>I recently purchased a milksnake that was sold to me as a pueblan milksnake. However, I have owned a pueblan milk snake before and this one looks different. The white and black bands on this guy are significantly thinner than that of the pueblan I used to have. I suspect that this guy might be a Sinaloan milksnake instead, but I am unsure of how to tell. Are there any morphological variations between the pueblan milk and sinaloan milk that would help me make a positive taxonomic ID?
>>
>>It has:
>>Thick red bands
>>Thin black bands
>>Thin white Bands (w/ a hint of peach/yellow)
>>White on its lower jaw (w/ a hint of peach/yellow)
>>A black head
>>Each band fails to connect beneith the ventral side of the snake
>>
>>Any information would be greatly apprechiated!

Kinda like saying "I saw this car, can someone help me figure out what it is? It had four tires, they were wide and black. It had white stripes (well, kinda white, kinda tan, kinda yellowish). The headlights were really sparkly. The seatbelts were chrome where they connect to the latch."

Theres too many red, white, and black morphs that all come in thick and thin bands and other variations, not to mention hybrids. Kind of like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Show us some pics, please.
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"Colubrid-aphilia", adj; An inordinate love of Colubrids.

Morphologic variations concern more than just color. I need to know if there are any differences in scale patterns, sub-ocular scales, scute formation, eye positioning and hemipene structure, etc., between the pueblan and sinaloan species? These are the types of morphologic variations I was reffering too. It is obviously that multiple speciments with red, black and white banded colorations exist. Too many! I am not concerned with this! I agree it would be too hard to tell with color alone. It is most likely is an apricot phase because of its peach color, but because red, black and white banded patterns are so common I am not concerned with color. Therefore, wether or not it is a hybrid is of little concern to me. I am looking for alternative physical characteristsics, if any exist, that set the sinaloan apart from the pueblan. Thank you!

Sinoloans and Pueblans are visibly different and easy to tell apart. Sinoloans and Nelsons are visibly alike and hard to distinguish from one another. Just look in the photo gallery and you will see many pictures of Sinoloans and Pueblans.
I do not think one must "count scales" to tell them apart since they are easily distiguishable by appearance alone. I could see this question being posted for taxonomy of sinoloans and nelsons though.
And yes a picture is worth a thousand words. If you want to know what you have post a pic. Describing a snake in words is next to impossible.
MHO,
John Lassiter

Thanks a lot guys I apprechiate the help. If it is that obvous then it is most deffinatly a sinaloan. I have never seen a pueblan that looks like this one before. I apologize for not having a pick on here but I lack access to a camera at this time. Thanks for all your help in answering my question.

Sincerely,
Jay

Here's a pix of a male pueblan to female sinaloan breeding two years ago. This should help with your id's.

Mike

Now that confused him. He wanted to see the differences in both, not what they look like crossed with one another.
There are too many of these out there that are being sold as either pueblans or sinoloans. I hope you sold those as crosses.
I have seen at least 4 people asking if they had pueblans on this forum in the last month and all of them were something else besides pueblans. Either the breeders that sold them did not know what they had or they blatenly lied.
John Lassiter

jlassiter, Thank you for your concern I do apprechiate it, however, I was not confused. Since all the snakes in the photo looked pretty similar, I figured they meant dihybrid crosses or something along those lines. I was actually acknowleging the differences in the photos between the two species. Thanks though.