Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Okay, so a week of emotional punishment wasn't enough. I scoured the region figuring if the mom-and-pop down the street from me had one, someone else may too. Found another macfadyeni 40 miles away in LA. This time a female to match my actual needs, but looking a little under the weather. Small shop, very nice owners in a nice environment, but way under-weight: 50g's and a length of 9 inches versus my male who is 9.5 inches and 122g's. Hip bones are showing, she's pretty empty but doesn't seem dehydrated at all.

Otherwise, a vibrant and friendly little monster (very clingy and LOVES to be touched). I paid real money for this one and my Uro budget is OUT for the week. Starting her on the calcium-syrup and the normal force-feeding method, daily weighing to monitor I/O processes, etc. Not looking dehydrated, so no injections for her.

She was very friendly in opening her mouth and, much to my suprise, I found out that Uros have forked tongues.

I think I'll start working on a website with photos and information describing malnourishment and treatment/monitoring. See if I can get the attention of, at least, local pet stores and see if I can help out some more animals before they become lost cases or end up in customers hands and then lost cases. See if I can get my vet on-board with the idea for prescriptions where necessary, etc. as I can give attention, but the expense is huge for the whole shebang.

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Poor girl. It makes me sad to think of how she was mistreated.

Thankfully you found her and I know that you'll take very good care of her and get her back to health!

You're a fantastic person for taking in animals that are mistreated and undernourished.

I'd like to thank you on behalf of my family, friends and my reptiles for being such a big hearted person as to do all of this for the love of the animals! You truly are one of a kind!

Good luck and I'll be thinking of both the uro's you've rescued recently!
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2 Mali Uromastyx-Ares & Apollo
2 Bearded Dragons- Draco & Hades
1 Saharan Uromastyx-Iris
1 Leopard Gecko-Kalypso
1 Tokay Gecko-Sid Vicious
1 Tarantula-Peter Parker
1 Amazon Red Head Parrot-Pancho
1 African Gray Parrot-Keya
1 Dog-Cheeka
3 Fish-no names
1 Beta Fish-also no name
1 Zebra Finch-Beeps

I hope this little one pulls through. You are a godsend to these mishandled herps. I bet if you contact the local animal shelter/humane society you may be able to get a little monetary help and possibly get some public interest support.

At least this one can hold her head up. Looks a little better then the other one. I hope and think this one will make it and it will be very grateful to you.
debs
ps thin but very cute
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The addiction can be dangerous. 1 Uro named Buddy aka Big Boy & 1 Ig named Tiny

>>Poor girl. It makes me sad to think of how she was mistreated.

Yeah, but "mistreated" isn't the right term unless "mistreated" means "imported." We all know there's a problem with pre-mature fatality for wild-caught animals with some species of Uros being worse than others and this species, according to everyone I've talked to, particulary bad.
I didn't see anything specifically wrong with her environment at the store (a place I'd go again to with no conscious problem) and it's very possible that the same could be said for the male at the other store last weekend. Even if we use the term neglect, it's still in the realm of unexpected demands. There are few people that I've talked to that know very much about Uros, and I can guarantee that the importers/distributors aren't warning people about these tendencies if they even know about it themselves.
For me, "mistreatment" has an intentional and malicious connotation, "neglect" relates to a voluntary choice of witholding care and is synonomous with indifference. Certainly, my geyri "Dude" was neither mistreated nor neglected for his first month in my house, yet his health declined similarly. His cagemate "Kitty" went through no similar problems under identical conditions. Only once I was educated and aware of the problem AND tendency, action and intervention became an option. There's probably a single obscure word to describe the situation, but it escapes me, but it pertains to ignorance.

This female is 50g, 9 inches- but still "vibrant." I didn't suspect her as unhealthy or even lightweight when I held and observed her. Next time I will bring a scale, calipers, and photos and talk the price down appropriately.

My healthy male is 9.5 inches, 122g. He bulked up over a couple weeks from 101g when I got him at Scales and his treatment was excellent and long term there.

The sick male was 66g, about 9.5 inches but far gone- dried eyes, near immobility, thin limbs, tented hip bones, lethargy, etc. I expect he was a massive critter initially in order to be that unhealthy but still that heavy, given my other two grown animals as reference points.

To me mistreated is anything that might cause harm to that specific animal.

For instance: if she was imported, was she imported correctly: such as her housing while be imported, her treatment before and after importation.

You are a godsend to these herps. I think making them better is your true calling, you should become a vet.
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2 Mali Uromastyx-Ares & Apollo
2 Bearded Dragons- Draco & Hades
1 Saharan Uromastyx-Iris
1 Leopard Gecko-Kalypso
1 Tokay Gecko-Sid Vicious
1 Tarantula-Peter Parker
1 Amazon Red Head Parrot-Pancho
1 African Gray Parrot-Keya
1 Dog-Cheeka
3 Fish-no names
1 Beta Fish-also no name
1 Zebra Finch-Beeps

>>To me mistreated is anything that might cause harm to that specific animal.

I just pulled out Mr Webster for a consultation.
Mistreat: to treat badly; ABUSE.

>>For instance: if she was imported, was she imported correctly: such as her housing while be imported, her treatment before and after importation.

The fatality rate is not necessarily poor housing or substandard or inapproiate housing (you can treat the animal in all proper ways, as my own captive pair proved to me), but that the animals do not acclimate and themselves choose not to accept the new turn in their life without extended and interventional attention.

Thre's two varieties of plants that I play with that exhibit similar behaviors- operculicarya pachypus and pachypodium brevicaule. The prior are very finnicky of their collection method (we suspect) and seemingly very resilient, while the latter are extremely finicky about their captive care.
You seemingly can not cause the o. pachypus to "want" to live- it does not respond to any amount of rooting hormone or moisture (but will rot) or heat (will dry out). Of seven plants I acquired in July, four have been losses- some immediate and some only confirming their demise recently. Two were short term successes while a third has sprouted small green nubs (I suspect roots as well) in the past month. A plant has few ways to convey its viability, but I determined a few distinct signs they were good or bad and maintained support.
The p. brevicaule is a fairly passive little critter as well but will take sudden turns for the worse. Like a Uro, you can determine if it's becoming dehydrated and you can help it if it's "willing", but a plant that's determined to reject you will reject you. With the help of a close friend who imports these plants, I've had stellar luck with my imported p. brevicaules and we've been trying to figure out the o. pachypus.
This isn't mistreatment or neglect, it's just how living things cope with being taken from their natural habitats. You can do everything right and the odds are against YOU successding because of the particular specimen.
How many humans would survive captivity if another super-race started capturing us and placing us in small terraria? If their intentions were benevolent and not at all malignant, having only the best of intentions but still motivated by economic concerns, what would acceptable losses for a standardized practice of distribution and containment be?
It makes you wonder just how many animals have died coming through this whole procedure in order for you to have a Uromastyx in your living room.

>>You are a godsend to these herps. I think making them better is your true calling, you should become a vet.

My boss probably feels I should continue making software and video-graphics. It's a neat idea, but doesn't have to be a full time job. Mathematics and engineering are my chosen course. Botany is an elective for me and biology may become a side-study with a host of other things.

>>How many humans would survive captivity if another super-race started capturing us and placing us in small terraria?

I'll tell you this much: if another race of humans were to be created, and if they try to capture me as a pet, they're gonna be missing some vital organs neccessary to reproduce. They would wanna back off if they knew whats good for them.
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2 Mali Uromastyx-Ares & Apollo
2 Bearded Dragons- Draco & Hades
1 Saharan Uromastyx-Iris
1 Leopard Gecko-Kalypso
1 Tokay Gecko-Sid Vicious
1 Tarantula-Peter Parker
1 Amazon Red Head Parrot-Pancho
1 African Gray Parrot-Keya
1 Dog-Cheeka
3 Fish-no names
1 Beta Fish-also no name
1 Zebra Finch-Beeps

mistreatment and neglect could be considered sins of commission, the actual act of doing something wrong, just as they could be considered sins of omission. doing nothing is just as bad as doing something. ignorance is no excuse. also if an animal is imported and it is not doing well because it chooses not to accept its new life, then why is it out on the floor with an expensive price tag? (i am not arguing with you, just showing you how my brain is working ) what we really need to work on is stopping the imports, so everyone go play some romantic music for your uros
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***

these uros are very lucky to have found you. and as much as i want to save every animal on the planet, it's just not possible by purchasing them, however you do come across some that you just cannot leave in the store (as with my helga). i would definitely work towards educating the stores. if they care then they will listen and if they don't then you know who you can report to humane societies
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***

>>as much as i want to save every animal on the planet, it's
>>just not possible by purchasing them

Extremely true.

>>i would definitely work towards educating the stores.
>>if they care then they will listen

I just went for a nice 40 mile hilly bike ride in the rain and I have some interesting ideas with a business model solidifying withe everyones interest in mind. Stay tuned.

>>and if they don't then you know who you can report to humane societies

Read my post on Semantics.
Time to go fill some syringes and then study my Chem und Deutsch.

she sure is sweet looking ! Soon she will fill out and be a colorful , fat beauty
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PHEve / Eve