Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've got a bunch of snakes that will eat pre-killed off tongs but won't take F/T. To be honest having to snap the necks of a dozen rodents gets me a little wierded out. Especially since my son helps with the feeding process, I'm not all together sure it's something he should be watching. Also, I rather not do the co2 thing since I have a toddler in the house. Anyway, I read somewhere that you can stick a bunch of them in a bucket and do something with another bucket that will suffocate them or something to that effect. Sounded like a good way to go, but I can't remember the specifics. Anyone familiar with this method? Or have any other suggestions?
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Tosha

8.8.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
7.9.5 Fish (1,2,3,4...)
0.0.1 Frog rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.2 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

Tosha, I'm not sure this is the method you mean, but my mom used to kill possums that would get after the chickens by putting them in a plastic bucket with a snap on lid (like a 2 gal. paint bucket). She always hated killing anything, but at least this way she didn't have to hit anything, or watch em die.

I take my tong, grab them by the tail and knock them out on a brick. Don't hit them to hard so that way if the snake doesn't eat the mouse it will come too and you can save it for another snake or for the next feeding. I rather do this IMO, then put them in a bucket and let them run out of air. I feed frozen thawed to most of my snakes but a few aren't having it. I understand you have kids and might not want them to see you knock them out.

DragonDavy

Charlie

WTF????

That's just not right IMO

First off you are torturing the poor rodent knocking it out repetitively (if that’s the case).

Next, if the rodent comes to and the snake didn't want it, that is one pissed off and scared, probably ready to bite rodent.

Tasha, P/K should be done fast and as painlessly as possible IMO, slow suffocation if that was the method in question is wrong.

Before anyone gets upset this is JMO
TomChambers

mean it should be treated any less humanely.
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Jay A. Martin

WTF????
Why come out like that.
Tom
People have there ways of doing things.
This is the way I do it and the snakes always eat them. So no pissed off mouse here, maybe a little head ache. That is why I try to get them to feed on F/T so I wont have to do this. That's why I said IMO.

Thanks
DragonDavy

I am sure the snakes don't care about what a rodent went through before it became a meal.

I was just taken back by the method of stunning a rodent unconscious then if it wasn’t eaten, store it and repeat the process until it is consumed.

I personally think this is immoral, and it is probably a form of abuse and illegal.

I breed my own rats and mice, and I also P/K them for any snake that will take them.

However, I make every attempt to do it fast and with as little suffering as I possibly can.

I use a cervical snap, and for large population freezing, I use CO2.

Sorry for my rudeness in the last post, that was uncalled for.

TomChambers

Agreed there are laws against animal cruelty, even mice should be dispensed of humanely...is CO2 humane...see post below

AVMA panel on Euthanasia
http://www.avma.org/resources/euthanasia.pdf

Animal resource program on Euthanasia
http://www.research.psu.edu/arp/euthanasia.shtml

Stanford Univesity
http://med.stanford.edu/compmed/word-pdf/oct_2003.pdf
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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
Check out my website at:
The Red Dragons Den

Hey Tom
It's cool.
I understand what you are saying. I don't like to do it as much and try to knock them out fast or just put them in live and keep an eye on them. Thats why I try to get them on f/t as soon as I can. I only have five snakes that eat live and all the others are on f/t rat pups.
How are you doing?
Hope all good.

Take care
DragonDavy

I did a little more searching and found the article but still not clear on how it works.

Ok this is how it goes: You get two plastic buckets that fit snuggly together. You put your rats/mice in the bottom bucket put the other bucket into that bucket and lift it up. The vacuum created between the two buckets constricts the prey. If you've ever gotten to plastic cups stuck together I imagine it works on the same concept. My question would be if anyone has tried this, does it really work (preconstriced mice/rats may be the ticket) and how do you know when it's done working (they are actually dead, no just knocked out, but there aren't guts all over the place)? Sounds like a fairly humane way to go if it's quick and easy.

Maybe I'll just stick to the ol' neck snap after all.
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Tosha

8.8.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
7.9.5 Fish (1,2,3,4...)
0.0.1 Frog rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.2 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

Its really not unsafe to have around the kids. Search the web for directions on how to rig something...theres tons of ways....

Truth to tell, I've fed my pair live all there lives. I don't have a large collection so it's easy enough to keep an eye on things. The rats seldom last more than 3 or 4 minutes in the tank before they get snatched up. The snakes have never been bitten, and they get a little excercise in the process.

There really is no more danger to a child with a CO2 tank in the house than there is if you keep Bleach, Lysol, or a fire extinguisher in the house. Just like with your cleaning tools~ just put away your Co2 equipment when you are done with it.

Here is a write up on why C02 intoxication is considered the humane method~ and how to build a safe in-expensive set up. Hope it helps some.
CO2 Chamber

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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
Check out my website at:
The Red Dragons Den

If you have access to dry ice (some stores sell it by the pound), it is pretty easy to prekill mice and rats. Simply put a piece of dry ice into a glass of water and put that in the bucket with the mice. As the Dry ice sublimes into CO2 gas (dry ice is just frozen CO2) it displaces the oxygen and the rats sufficate rather quickly. You don't even have to seal the container since CO2 is heavier than air. The best part is, you don't have to store any excess dry ice anywhere or any CO2 cylinders etc...thus it is completely safe and efficient and usually cheap (50 cents a pound of dry ice, one pound would be enough to kill or so 1000 mice). You can keep dry ice for about a week in a fairly thick styrofoam box or you can put it in you freezer if you want all of your food to be really thoroughly frozen.

However, as easy as this is I still just snap their necks using a ruler. That way they die instantly and don't really suffer at all. I can't imagine suffocation is fun, despite what some people say, I can tell for a fact that breathing in concentrated CO2 burns more than you want to know (it has happened to me more than once when moving 35 lb dry ice blocks from a large sealed floor container...if you accidently breath while your head is in the ice chest...ouch), think of breathing in acid fumes and you will get the idea (pretty literally since concentrated CO2 combines with the water vapor coating your lungs to form carbonic acid, which as you can imagine is not pleasant.) If you want to try this at home take a two liter bottle of coke pour out half of it, shake the remaing half up with the lid closed and then breath directly from the bottle the CO2 that escaped while you were shaking it. Kinda burns, right...multiply that by ten times and you get the idea of what concentrated CO2 feels like on the lungs....hardly humane for the mice or rats.

Maybe still better than smacking their heads against a brick several times...lol

I can control how quickly the C02 fills the chamber~ unlike dry ice which will quickly flood the chamber.

In order for it to be "humane" you must only introduce a miniscule amount of the CO2 until the rodents become CO2 intoxicated and appear to fall asleep. THEN you flood the tank with CO2 to finish the job.

Your right~ if you fill the tank too quickly the rodents do struggle and are obviously in pain. A canister with a control valve is much better than a chunk of dry ice for that very reason. And it only costs me $2 to fill the canister that lasts for months.
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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
Check out my website at:
The Red Dragons Den

I recently built a modified version of the CO2 chamber that Cheryl has on her website. It cost around $60 to build. I used it for the first time today. I adjusted the valve so that the CO2 slowly filled the chamber. Within about 2-3 minutes, the rats appeared to be unconscious. They never struggled or seemed stressed. I was amazed at how well it worked. Thanks for the info Cheryl.

Louis Kirkland

Cheryl;

That is a nice looking CO2 "Rodent Gas Chamber". I plan to make one like it from your plans but I think I'll use an air checkvalve (used in the airlines of aquarium air pumps) at the end of the air vent hose so you don't really need the extra jar with water then.

Rob Reiding.