Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, I guess it was imminent. My last black Eastern died today. Go figure. I'm 8 for 8 on the brown ones, and 0 for 5 on the black ones. Still don't know why all the black ones died. Oh well, another sad day.
-----
2.3.1 Three Toed Box Turtles
1.1.6 Eastern Box Turtles
0.0.2 Gulf Coast Box Turtles
0.0.1 50/50 black and white California King Snake

Sorry for your loss, have you tried contacing a vet to do a necropsy?
-----
My Site
1.2.1 Terrapene Carolina Triunguis
0.1 Nymphicus hollandicus
1.1 Melopsittacus undulatus
1.0 American Cocker Spaniels
1.0 American Short Hair? Cat
1.1 Rouen Ducks

Is that the human equivalent to an autopsy? Any idea how much that would run me? I have taken a live turtle to the vet before, and it was a bit pricey. Not sure if I'd be willing to spend a lot on a turtle that's already dead.
-----
2.3.1 Three Toed Box Turtles
1.1.6 Eastern Box Turtles
0.0.2 Gulf Coast Box Turtles
0.0.1 50/50 black and white California King Snake

5 dead box turtles that is ashame i hope they were captive born if not this is really not tolerable. What did they die from it is tough to kill five box turtles. Thats really ashame

Who are you to say what is tolerable? I didn't know God was a member of the forum. I did not kill them, they just died. Read the post again, maybe you'll understand it after reading it a second time.
-----
2.3.1 Three Toed Box Turtles
1.1.6 Eastern Box Turtles
0.0.2 Gulf Coast Box Turtles
0.0.1 50/50 black and white California King Snake

The best person to ask about the cost of a necropsy would be your vet, since fees can vary considerably.
Necropsy represents your best chance of finding what caused your turtles' deaths: we can all speculate as much as we want, but if you're serious about determining cause of death, you will need to pay a professional to do the work necessary. Or find a local Veterinary college and see if they're interested in doing it.
Stephanie

Stephanie, the veterinary college is a great idea. I don't know why I didn't think of that, because my cousin is in a veterinary college. I'm gonna call him and see what he can find out. Thanks!
-----
2.3.1 Three Toed Box Turtles
1.1.6 Eastern Box Turtles
0.0.2 Gulf Coast Box Turtles
0.0.1 50/50 black and white California King Snake

Good luck.
Let us know the outcome, if you have it done. I'd be interested to know if pigmentation had anything to do with it, or if it was just coincidental that all of your black turtles died.
Stephanie

I'll have it done and let everyone know. By the way, if you do the math, it's like a .006% chance that it's coincidental. So I'm really gonna look into this. Thanks.
-----
2.3.1 Three Toed Box Turtles
1.1.5 Eastern Box Turtles
0.0.2 Gulf Coast Box Turtles
0.0.1 50/50 black and white California King Snake

I really do hope you go thru with this and are not just telling people you will. If you've had more than one animal die, you should look at a) their habitat/environment & b)take the damn animal to the vet... your right, exotic vets are pricey, but hey, your animal (whether it be a herp or cat or dog) deserve to be given the best chance to live!

Just my .02 but I don't think you should keep turtles if you've had 5 die and done nothing but wonder about it! I am not any saint, but I've learned that why exotic vets are expensive, they are necessary if your going to keep one... so PLEASE do the right thing, either get the necropsy done or stop keeping these turtles... it's only fair!

Ryan

Like I said to the other guy, if you didn't understand the original post, go back and read it again. I repeat, temp and humidity are at good levels. I offer a vast variety of foods, with calcium and vitamin suppliments. I am not sitting here "wondering" about it, I am looking for some help. If you have none to offer, stop wasting my time.
I have talked to several other people who have had the same problems with darker colored hatchlings. Whether or not I continue to keep turtles is no business of yours. And taking a dead animal to the vet isn't going to help keep it alive, it is already dead. And just to let you know, the "damn animal", as you so politely put it, is currently at a vet school awaiting a necropsy that is scheduled for Thursday. So kiss off.
-----
2.3.1 Three Toed Box Turtles
1.1.5 Eastern Box Turtles
0.0.2 Gulf Coast Box Turtles
0.0.1 50/50 black and white California King Snake

Well, like I said I hope you really are getting a necorpsy done, and if you are great... unfortunately you probably should have done this sometime ago to one of the first 4 that died, maybe this little one would have stood a chance.

I don't think I am holier than thou... but you gotta realize when it's time to call in professional help, that should have been after the 1st one died... not the 5th time this happened... just my opinion!

Ryan

This forum is an avenue for advice. I'm not interested in your opinion unless it has to do with helping my situation. Yours doesn't. You must face reality. Not all animals are born free from defects and make it to adulthood. Especially in reptiles. A lot of people that actually tried to help me instead of being critical believe it could be something genetic. Unfortunatly, it takes multiple setbacks to discover a pattern. So your opinion doesn't really mean that much.
-----
2.3.1 Three Toed Box Turtles
1.1.5 Eastern Box Turtles
0.0.2 Gulf Coast Box Turtles
0.0.1 50/50 black and white California King Snake

I'm curious. Were these 5 hatchlings that died? If so were they kept under the same conditions as so called brown hatchlings you've had? You say that temps, humidity etc. are all ideal. What is your setup like exactly. Don't want to flame just trying to understand.
David bernard

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=719039,719039 read that
-----
My Site
1.2.1 Terrapene Carolina Triunguis
0.1 Nymphicus hollandicus
1.1 Melopsittacus undulatus
1.0 American Cocker Spaniels
1.0 American Short Hair? Cat
1.1 Rouen Ducks

Hi David. Yes they were all hatchlings. The black ones were kept exactly the same as the brown ones, in all cases they were kept in the same exact enclosure as the brown ones of the same size and species. My setup for hatchlings is as follows; A 20 gallon long glass aquarium with a heat lamp on one side, a screen top and a plastic tupperware lid on the opposite side of the light to keep humidity in. I also have a 12" flourescent light for UVB. The substrate is a mix of clean sphagnum moss with some reptibark mixed in, along with the clumpy frog moss and the looser moss that comes in those flat cardboard containers. I spray them 3 to 4 times a day. There is a water bowl big enough for 3 hatchlings to get inside. I have a temperature gauge on the hot side and a temperature gauge on the cool side, with a humidity gauge in the middle. I also use a nighttime red bulb for warmth at night. I know for sure that my setup is ok.
-----
2.3.1 Three Toed Box Turtles
1.1.5 Eastern Box Turtles
0.0.2 Gulf Coast Box Turtles
0.0.1 50/50 black and white California King Snake

When you refer to your hatchlings as being black, do you mean that they are truly black (or extremely dark brown), or that they have no lighter spots, or both?

One of my females is predominantly black, and has produced hatchlings that have not had any lighter spots on them. They don't appear to be having any problems, but it can be challenging to judge with hatchlings because they can easily get to a point where they're beyond help without showing dramatic outward signs of distress.
The ones you'd acquired may have had some other congenital defects or problems, and the fact that they also happened to all have been black may be coincidental. Or, maybe being completely black is a sign of ill health. In other words, they may have been doomed before you got them.
Learning as much as you can before starting again is definitely a smart thing to do: glad to hear you found a school to do the necropsy.
Right now I'm puzzling over why only one of six hatchlings is showing signs of MBD when its five clutchmates are fine: they are all housed in the same place, eat the same food, are exposed to the same temperatures, humidity and light. The light bulb's UVB element had fizzled and I've since replaced the bulb, and the little guy in question is already improving. But why only one hatchling and not all?
There is so much we don't know.
Regards
Stephanie

Hi Stephanie. When I say they are black, I am referring to the color of the brown part. Four of them had yellow spots, one was completely black. And when I say black, I'm saying they are so black that when the light hits them they reflect blue, like someone with really dark hair.
No outward sign of illness is my problem. They seem to do well for a time and then all of a sudden they die on me. I know what to look for as far as MBD and RI are concerned. It is not either one of those, or anything else I can see. I carefully look each one over at every feeding (every other day) and I weigh them once a week. I really do hope they were doomed before I got them, because I really am doing everything in my power to keep these guys alive and healthy, that's why I posted here in the first place. Nothing I've read in books or on the internet has helped me with this problem, that's why I turned to you guys.
About starting again, it is not an issue because it is still going well with the brown ones. I'm glad your guy with MBD is improving, but it just goes to show that bad things can happen even when you do all the right things. I hope he makes a full recovery.
-----
2.3.1 Three Toed Box Turtles
1.1.5 Eastern Box Turtles
0.0.2 Gulf Coast Box Turtles
0.0.1 50/50 black and white California King Snake