Reptile & Amphibian Forums

“Sounds like this girl is making you go Bonkers. First I would like to let everyone know why I did tell you to “HOLD OFF” breeding. I personally have not had good luck in breeding in Mid to Late Summer. Also, that female was Barely 25 months at that time. I think it would have been a huge mistake to get her pregnant so early as this could have contributed to many problems she may have the rest of her life. I have bred Young females with NOTHING but tragic results. I have had young females up to size with BIG follicles and decided to go for the GUSTO. I really wish I hadn’t. I would love to give the statistics on my numbers, but I would bore everyone more then I already do. So, I do feel that adding another 6 months of feeding would have had NO Harm or effect on her follicular growth, and After following HUNDREDS of Boas the past 5 years with ultrasound technology, I believe I can shed some light on the situation.”

You are right about me going bonkers.

Regarding Missy: Her age was a big issue with me as well, which is why I called you for input. I wanted her to wait until late fall or winter. I am confused somewhat when it comes to the whole male-female attraction thing, though. At that time, he did not react this way to any of my other girls. If the male shows no interest in the female, it’s pretty hard for them to be fruitful and multiply. I have read posts where people have some males that will be attracted to a given female, and another male pays her no attention.

I most likely would not have left Murphy with her in August, except for this: 1) In spite of the way I have fed her, which from things I hear about other feeding methods, I sometimes feel like I’ve danged near starved her. She is right at 12lbs and was probably around 11 or 11.5 then – I didn’t weigh her in August. From last winter to late last spring, she has been fed once a week, one medium “Big Cheese” rat. I have marveled at her growth - even more in light of her size compared to her and Murphy’s littermate’s sizes when I picked her up at your place. Their littermates that you were keeping were noticeably larger than either one of them. Late last spring, I moved her up to the B.C. large rats, feeding the smaller ones of those. I think there might be people who would think nothing of feeding her twice that much in weight per feeding. I have not tried to push her at all regarding meals. 2) When our weather turned warm last spring, she got to go outside 3-4 times a week for 1-2 hours. This continued throughout the summer. Fortunately, the way my property and outbuildings are situated, I can bring 2-3 boas outside to roam around without them getting into trouble. I do my projects and chores, and check on them periodically. They get to crawl around a lot and get exercise. (The most I have to worry about is a Hawk snatching up the smaller ones.) She has grown tremendously and is very muscular. Perhaps it is because of all the exercise. I certainly don’t think I overfeed her and she is not one of these fleshy, soft globs that have been fed into morbid obesity. She is in great flesh and sort of looks like a body-builder snake. I have felt like her size has been attained in a healthy manner, so – right or wrong – that is why I elected to leave Murphy with her in August.

She is the only one of my females that developed this firm bulge. I wrote in my previous post that I first noticed the bulge in August, but that is wrong. I first noticed it sometime in July, but it was before I put Murphy in with her in August. I was typing all this stuff at 2 or 3 am and my brain was fried. Anyway, I put him with her about two weeks before her initial ultrasound where we could only see the black area (probably gas) and we didn’t get x-rays until October, so I still had no idea what was really going on inside her. All I know is that she was the only female he was attracted to, at that time.

”FIRST of all, without a DOUBT females can grow HUGE follicles without the presence of a male. So, you don’t have to have a Male COURTING a female in order for the follicles to grow big. Also, a Male will breed a female with VERY small follicles. I have found that this REALLY does wear out the Males. There is no REASON to put them on a female and have them court them to get those follicles to a Specific size when the female will do it without the male. Had you have left your male in with that female to court her, I would almost BET you 100 bucks your Hypo Female wouldn’t be pregnant buy that SAME male, and the other female you mentioned you were breeding wouldn’t have a shot either.”

This makes total sense to me, which is why I had my prospective females ultrasounded – so I could see who was doing what. Why waste the male’s energy reserves courting one female forever when another is further along in her cycle and closer to being breedable? If he is attracted to both females, a choice must be made, and an informed choice is what I hoped for.

Compared to you, I have zero knowledge of these boas, however I have grown up around horse breeding and that is ALL ABOUT follicle growth, follicle size and timing the breedings. Our boa’s follicles are not so much different. They come out of the ovary and grow and when they reach a certain size, they are fertilizable.

“Now, You ask, HOW IN THE HECK do I know that my female has BIG follicles without an ultrasound??? I know this sounds silly, but you really can tell by behavior. I have been almost able to guess where EVERY female I have ultrasounding is at before we even Ultrasound her. Gaylynn always asks me. HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT??? Well, I think the females really tell you and let you know. Of course I can pin point MUCH clearer because of my past experience with Ultrasounding. However, there are Breeders such as Mike W, Pete Kahl, and I’m sure Rich Ihle and Jeff Ronne, can just look at a female and KNOW that she has large follicles. Some of the females show it by the body, and others just start acting differently. As you get to know each animal, you start to figure it out. I think that is why it is SOOO important to take notes and KEEP those notes and study them every year so you can learn what the animals behavior was before and that can help you make decisions the next year. With a large collection of Boas, it is even MORE important because it is very easy to forget.”

Perhaps I am not as keen at observing behavior as you, but I never noticed any difference in Missy. She has been the “Steady Freddy” all along. She never refuses food and I never noticed in differences in her until her lump/bulge appeared. She still continued to act the same – after the lump - and still ate like clockwork.

”Second. You really don’t need an ultrasound to determine follicular size. I have found that it is quite easy to Palpatate BOAS!!! YES BOAS. You have to do it Completely Opposite then you do the Ball pythons, but it is quite similar and easy. So, if you can FEEL the follicles, they are DEFINATLEY large enough for you to introduce a Male. On my knew web site, I’ll have video footage of HOW to do this, so be a little more patient, and I will have some examples of “HOW TO DO THIS” as well as many other things.”

Oh Lordy! I know I couldn’t do that and my hat is off to your success palpating boas. I think I will stick with the peek inside method.

”Last without REALLY boring you, I can tell you that X rays are pretty hard to read. 2 years before Gaylynn and used Ultrasounds, we used to pack up the car with a ton of heat pads and bring as many females as we thought we could to the Vet for Xrays. Sometimes you could see, but sometimes you couldn’t and GAS is dark black just like slugs, and they are very hard to determine possible outcomes. I also did some studies on the effects of Xrays, and although I did have some good litters, I don’t think it is the best thing for them. However, they can really be helpful in areas such as this.”

If we had been able to see more when we ultrasounded her, I probably wouldn’t have asked for x-rays. At that time, in October, when we still couldn’t see what the bulge was, I was freaking out, thinking perhaps it was a tumor of some sort. Nothing was visible until we did the x-rays. Due to the appearance of the follicles, my vet even asked for a second opinion, to confirm that it WAS reproductive material we were seeing.

”Here is what I would do. Chris at Giantkeeper mentioned his experience with feeding and breeding, and he is correct. There was a question he was answering when the guy asked if his female ovulated. Well, to touch up on that. I can tell you that I have NEVER had a female eat within 2 weeks of her ovulataion, and most of the time it is 3 to 4 weeks before they take food. So, if you feed a female and she gets a HUGE lump it is probably like Chris said the combination of large follicles and food. FEEDING is sometimes hard to tell if they are GRAVID because some females eat and some don’t.”

“Why Bring that up? Because here is what I would tell LINDA to do in this situation. Since gas can be caused by the breaking down of food, I wouldn’t feed that Female Motley for 2 weeks. I would then go in and get an Xray or an Ultrasound. The Ultrasound would be ideal but if you don’t have that technology, then do the X ray. HOWEVER, Just go 3 inches up from the VENT. Once a female has Ovulated, the eggs go ALL the way into the VENT. Sometimes we think a female has completely ovulated, and Gaylynn and I just take the Probe 1 to 2 inches from the Vent and if we see circles, they have NOT completely ovulated from both ovaries. So, take the X ray or the Ultrasound and go up from that point. If you see nothing, she has NOT ovulated. IF SHE hasn’t ovulated then there is NO use of worrying about SLUGS that are stuck that have to be removed. She may have some infection in the bowel which is NOT uncommon for females breeding, and that could be a LOT worse. However, if you don’t see matter within 6 to 8 inches up from the VENT, she is NOT gravid. So, I hope that Helps.”

Her stomach was empty, but she did have some fecal material in her bowel. Part of the problem may have been the ultrasound machine. I don’t know. I will post her x-rays next. Her follicles have not gone down near the vent. The latest x-rays show a group lined up and then some in a group at fore end. None of them are near the vent. Granted, I could have missed her ovulation, but I don’t think so because I have been pretty obsessive about looking in on her.

My concern is whether these follicles are going to come out on their own – or what? There is no changed in their appearance ie., roundness, firmness, size - only their positioning. At this point, I suppose Murphy didn’t impact her either way, since she had this bulge a month before I put him in with her. I hope we will be able to make a more informed decision in March. I would like her to be gravid, but after all this time, is it even likely? More than anything, I want her to be OK. If these follicles need to be removed, then we will do that.

Jeremy, thank you for this valuable information and sharing it with all of us. I don’t like asking people stuff. I have been fortunate to learn some things from you and Gaylynn, and my little brat-brother, Mike, has helped me tremendously. Due to the competitive nature of this hobby/business, I can certainly understand that breeders are not eager to share their hard-earned secrets. Horse training is a lot like that, especially in the show industry, where tips and techniques are guarded zealously.

So we, here on the forum, end up looking at each other’s pictures and admiring the pretty morphs instead of learning a lot. where I am hesitant asking you things, I have no problem picking the brain of my vet, and I have learned a lot from him. If he doesn’t know the answer, he calls other reptile vets until he has it. In many ways, my journey with him has been good for us both. He gets to see boas outside the usual “death’s door neglect victims” they normally get and he starts salivating when he sees my healthy ones. And - I get to sit in on surgeries and all the other cool stuff we have done.

I will update Missy’s condition as I know more. If we end up removing the follicles, I will even take pics of the procedure and post them. My vet is also a photography buff and sometimes takes pics of procedures – so either way, we should have something in living color.

Thanks again, Jeremy. I appreciate all your help. I did not spellcheck this, so please forgive any typos.
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Linda Hedgpeth
lindafh@frontiernet.net
Sierra Serpents

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"

Linda, Great Post. I think the most intruiging thing about these Boas is the whole reproductive process. Many breeders to hold their knowledge back, and I can understand why. I would like to get to this in a second, but just to finish off your Ultrasound topic, here is my suggestion, and hopefully you can do this with the probe you have.

Ultrasounds: We have tried 5 machines. We have had great success with the 5 mhz or 7.5 mhz probe. However, the linear probes were very difficult to get accurate information, and you can’t get them wet. The Best probe is the RECTAL probe. It is very easy to use in water and slide along size the female. I will post examples of this on the new site as well. We use a VETSONIC machine. I found some great new machines in FL that were new for around 6G. However, I went with the Vet Sonic I bought from Alex who got it from a Vetsonic Representative. Used machines are cheaper then the new ones, and a good USED machine can be better then a new machine. Three years ago we purchased Completely new Software for the Vetsonic machine and software for the Rectal Probe. This allows us to type in the information and STORE it forever. It was also easier to view the snakes. I can look at a female and see where she was last month, last year, and 3 years ago. We can store all the information on the machine, but I also manually store it and save it in our records. I also do this for the Ball Pythons. I have found the Ultrasound is much more effective in Ball Breeding then Boa breeding. I believe a female Boa will Ovulate in a year regardless of the fact that I am ultrasounding her and putting males in the cage. Where the ultrasound really come in handy is determining if the Babies are good, or if there are slugs. However, You can have a female go the whole pregnancy carrying a good litter, and still have something go wrong. Last year I had 2 Perfect litters that were resulting in FULLY formed DEAD babies. One of those was a Motley litter. I was looking at 17 dead PERFECTLY formed Motleys. They were 4 days late, and that was hard to take. It also happened in another Hypo X T positive breeding. All the babies were perfect and came out dead, so I guess the Ultrasound didn’t help there. LOL Anyway, GO to your Vet and have him look at the VENT all the way to 12 inches up. If you are seeing Masses in there, then she is Gravid. If you don’t see anything then she isn’t gravid. Like Sean mentioned, the follicles start right after the Gall Bladder, and the Gall is very easy to find. It is about 1 foot to 18 inches down from the heart. Also a 10 mm egg can look pretty big on the ultrasound screen, but inside that Boa are TINY eggs. Soooo, just go to that vent area and go up about a foot and that should work.

To the information of Breeders keeping secrets. I realize that many want to keep the hard earned lessons to themselves and not share them. Especially medical and breeding information that can allow competitors to get further along in the process. Regardless of what we say, this is a COMPETETIVE area. I have held back on posting information in the Past, but I have also been accused by other breeders for giving out too much information and to stop doing that. I remember Jeff Ronne talking on his web site about how it was frustrating for him to get asked by people all the time for information about their animals when they purchased them from other people. At the time, I thought it was strange but I completely understand. Sometimes the Breeders are more expensive, and get passed up to get cheaper animals. That is PERFECTLY fine, and I have done the same myself. However, it is frustrating to get questions about other peoples snakes. People ask me a lot of questions and I try to answer them, but I do give my customers a LOT more information then I give a person who chose to buy his Boas elsewhere. That is just business. I do think that with the whole Herp Business has been changed by the Internet, and this is a great thing. There is a ton of information out there that is good and bad. I was just speaking to Tracy Barker about this last week, and I have learned a lot. Breeders can give all the information they want out there. We can walk you through everything step by step, however, people will always try something different and end up not doing what we say. Also, what works in my area and neck of the woods may not work for you. There are some areas that can be applied to EVERYONE on Boa Breeding that are VITAL to having successful breeding. However, everyone really has to learn for themselves. I think as more people post what they learn, others can greatly benefit from their advice. However, real understanding HAS to come from experience. New people can breed Boas with information out there, but they will have to tweek it a little to fit their environment.

I think this Boa Forum is one of the Best sources of Information out there. I know many breeders would contribute more if it were a little different. I don’t know how this can change though. I know for one that If I post something that is very valuable to ME, I often get emails of thanks for the post. This forum can also be a little “CLICKY”. You see when one person posts, that you get a ton of Nice replies, but someone could also post the exact same thing a few days later, with NO replies. Some People are reluctant post replies to my posts it will be viewed by others are “Butt kissing”. I know there are a lot of breeders that would post more information if we could somehow get over that. If Pete Kahl posts something valuable, it would be great to reply. However, if he posted more often and people posted their thoughts below, it would come across as BUTT kissing to others. I think this is pretty sad. Of course you feel more comfortable posting replys to people you know. There are a lot of friends in here. I do this too. However, I know that better information can come about in a more friendly environment. I post when I can, and I have received emails by a few people that think I’m coming across as a KNOW IT ALL. I really hope I don’t come across that way. I feel I have a very good understanding of Boas, however, I learn new things EVERYDAY. Just last week, I learned a valuable peace of Feeding information from Gus Renfro. I’ll try it this year. I can also learn from just a new person who has also been keeping Boas for a short while. Everyone can ad and we all can learn a lot more. No matter HOW much you know, there is always somebody out there who KNOWS more. That is LIFE!!!!! I love discussions out there that talk about Reproductive matter with Boas, and it is great to hear others experiences so we can apply it or incorporate it into our collections. So, if you have some observations that you feel is valuable PLEASE post it.

Where I think you learn the MOST is from Mistakes and mishaps. I think that sometimes it is hard for a breeder to talk about something like a DISEASE because it would APPEAR as if he didn’t have a clean collection. IT isn’t my fault or anyone elses that the Boas end up with a Cancerous tumor, or IBD for heaven sake. However, if we talk about it, then it could be implied that there are “PROBLEMS IN THE CAMP”. Other breeder could toss that information and hold it against a person, so there is a Sort of HUSH HUSH attitude out there. I think if a breeder has never experienced a Sickness, Death, mites, or most diseases, then that person really isn’t experienced. IF you have a Large Collection PROBLEMS WILL OCCUR. These are LIVE animals. I know of some Breeders that when an animal dies or acts funny it is just wiped out and thrown away. I think that is irresponsible. I think it should be Necrospied and try to find out what went wrong and how to prevent it from happening again. I know it is hard to do this with every animal, but to make an attempt to Learn from the death is what really will help us and others understand and Learn MORE. People have the attitude of “Can’t be hurt by what they don’t know” and they justify the death as something of a different nature to feel better. IF the animal was dissected and the cause of death is determined, breeders would REALLY learn a ton more. I think that no matter HOW clean you keep your animals, some problems WILL occur, and this is just a given. I really don’t think that any breeder could be successful year after year breeding boas if he didn’t practice good husbandry, so I wish that this idea of not talking about certain issues would go away and we could openly discuss issues to help us better understand what is going on. I know when a breeder has a death, it is easier to throw it away, because you can’t be hurt by what you don’t know, but I think the Boas deserve better, and the customers do too.

I would love to see the environment change, so we can all learn a lot more, but I really understand why it doesn’t. I am guilty of being competitive, however, I think that the business would be a lot healthier if we all had success. Yes success brings down prices, and that can be a negative, however, success is addictive, and those who have it will keep buying and buying, and the more success you have the better the business is going to be in the long haul. That is why I think Ball Pythons have passed up the Boas. They are EASY to have success with. With success come confidence, and the business booms. I know Boas are more difficult then the Balls, but if you really do the Math, they aren’t that much more difficult. I think with more info to help others breed, we would all be better off. I DIDN’T ALWAYS THINK THIS WAY. So for those who know me, I do feel this way now. LOL Boy is this a LONG soap Box. Tooo many issues all in One!!!!!! Lets have fun. Boas truly are the BEST herp of all Herps!!!!! Yes I did go into the BUSINESS aspect, and the reason I did so is because it REALLY is the reason we all have these animals in the first place!!!! Best of luck. I would be interested in replies. However, I can understand if there are none. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeremy Stone

>>Linda, Great Post. I think the most intruiging thing about these Boas is the whole reproductive process. Many breeders to hold their knowledge back, and I can understand why. I would like to get to this in a second, but just to finish off your Ultrasound topic, here is my suggestion, and hopefully you can do this with the probe you have.
>>
>>Ultrasounds: We have tried 5 machines. We have had great success with the 5 mhz or 7.5 mhz probe. However, the linear probes were very difficult to get accurate information, and you can’t get them wet. The Best probe is the RECTAL probe. It is very easy to use in water and slide along size the female. I will post examples of this on the new site as well. We use a VETSONIC machine. I found some great new machines in FL that were new for around 6G. However, I went with the Vet Sonic I bought from Alex who got it from a Vetsonic Representative. Used machines are cheaper then the new ones, and a good USED machine can be better then a new machine. Three years ago we purchased Completely new Software for the Vetsonic machine and software for the Rectal Probe. This allows us to type in the information and STORE it forever. It was also easier to view the snakes. I can look at a female and see where she was last month, last year, and 3 years ago. We can store all the information on the machine, but I also manually store it and save it in our records. I also do this for the Ball Pythons. I have found the Ultrasound is much more effective in Ball Breeding then Boa breeding. I believe a female Boa will Ovulate in a year regardless of the fact that I am ultrasounding her and putting males in the cage. Where the ultrasound really come in handy is determining if the Babies are good, or if there are slugs. However, You can have a female go the whole pregnancy carrying a good litter, and still have something go wrong. Last year I had 2 Perfect litters that were resulting in FULLY formed DEAD babies. One of those was a Motley litter. I was looking at 17 dead PERFECTLY formed Motleys. They were 4 days late, and that was hard to take. It also happened in another Hypo X T positive breeding. All the babies were perfect and came out dead, so I guess the Ultrasound didn’t help there. LOL Anyway, GO to your Vet and have him look at the VENT all the way to 12 inches up. If you are seeing Masses in there, then she is Gravid. If you don’t see anything then she isn’t gravid. Like Sean mentioned, the follicles start right after the Gall Bladder, and the Gall is very easy to find. It is about 1 foot to 18 inches down from the heart. Also a 10 mm egg can look pretty big on the ultrasound screen, but inside that Boa are TINY eggs. Soooo, just go to that vent area and go up about a foot and that should work.
>>
>>
>>To the information of Breeders keeping secrets. I realize that many want to keep the hard earned lessons to themselves and not share them. Especially medical and breeding information that can allow competitors to get further along in the process. Regardless of what we say, this is a COMPETETIVE area. I have held back on posting information in the Past, but I have also been accused by other breeders for giving out too much information and to stop doing that. I remember Jeff Ronne talking on his web site about how it was frustrating for him to get asked by people all the time for information about their animals when they purchased them from other people. At the time, I thought it was strange but I completely understand. Sometimes the Breeders are more expensive, and get passed up to get cheaper animals. That is PERFECTLY fine, and I have done the same myself. However, it is frustrating to get questions about other peoples snakes. People ask me a lot of questions and I try to answer them, but I do give my customers a LOT more information then I give a person who chose to buy his Boas elsewhere. That is just business. I do think that with the whole Herp Business has been changed by the Internet, and this is a great thing. There is a ton of information out there that is good and bad. I was just speaking to Tracy Barker about this last week, and I have learned a lot. Breeders can give all the information they want out there. We can walk you through everything step by step, however, people will always try something different and end up not doing what we say. Also, what works in my area and neck of the woods may not work for you. There are some areas that can be applied to EVERYONE on Boa Breeding that are VITAL to having successful breeding. However, everyone really has to learn for themselves. I think as more people post what they learn, others can greatly benefit from their advice. However, real understanding HAS to come from experience. New people can breed Boas with information out there, but they will have to tweek it a little to fit their environment.
>>
>>I think this Boa Forum is one of the Best sources of Information out there. I know many breeders would contribute more if it were a little different. I don’t know how this can change though. I know for one that If I post something that is very valuable to ME, I often get emails of thanks for the post. This forum can also be a little “CLICKY”. You see when one person posts, that you get a ton of Nice replies, but someone could also post the exact same thing a few days later, with NO replies. Some People are reluctant post replies to my posts it will be viewed by others are “Butt kissing”. I know there are a lot of breeders that would post more information if we could somehow get over that. If Pete Kahl posts something valuable, it would be great to reply. However, if he posted more often and people posted their thoughts below, it would come across as BUTT kissing to others. I think this is pretty sad. Of course you feel more comfortable posting replys to people you know. There are a lot of friends in here. I do this too. However, I know that better information can come about in a more friendly environment. I post when I can, and I have received emails by a few people that think I’m coming across as a KNOW IT ALL. I really hope I don’t come across that way. I feel I have a very good understanding of Boas, however, I learn new things EVERYDAY. Just last week, I learned a valuable peace of Feeding information from Gus Renfro. I’ll try it this year. I can also learn from just a new person who has also been keeping Boas for a short while. Everyone can ad and we all can learn a lot more. No matter HOW much you know, there is always somebody out there who KNOWS more. That is LIFE!!!!! I love discussions out there that talk about Reproductive matter with Boas, and it is great to hear others experiences so we can apply it or incorporate it into our collections. So, if you have some observations that you feel is valuable PLEASE post it.
>>
>>Where I think you learn the MOST is from Mistakes and mishaps. I think that sometimes it is hard for a breeder to talk about something like a DISEASE because it would APPEAR as if he didn’t have a clean collection. IT isn’t my fault or anyone elses that the Boas end up with a Cancerous tumor, or IBD for heaven sake. However, if we talk about it, then it could be implied that there are “PROBLEMS IN THE CAMP”. Other breeder could toss that information and hold it against a person, so there is a Sort of HUSH HUSH attitude out there. I think if a breeder has never experienced a Sickness, Death, mites, or most diseases, then that person really isn’t experienced. IF you have a Large Collection PROBLEMS WILL OCCUR. These are LIVE animals. I know of some Breeders that when an animal dies or acts funny it is just wiped out and thrown away. I think that is irresponsible. I think it should be Necrospied and try to find out what went wrong and how to prevent it from happening again. I know it is hard to do this with every animal, but to make an attempt to Learn from the death is what really will help us and others understand and Learn MORE. People have the attitude of “Can’t be hurt by what they don’t know” and they justify the death as something of a different nature to feel better. IF the animal was dissected and the cause of death is determined, breeders would REALLY learn a ton more. I think that no matter HOW clean you keep your animals, some problems WILL occur, and this is just a given. I really don’t think that any breeder could be successful year after year breeding boas if he didn’t practice good husbandry, so I wish that this idea of not talking about certain issues would go away and we could openly discuss issues to help us better understand what is going on. I know when a breeder has a death, it is easier to throw it away, because you can’t be hurt by what you don’t know, but I think the Boas deserve better, and the customers do too.
>>
>> I would love to see the environment change, so we can all learn a lot more, but I really understand why it doesn’t. I am guilty of being competitive, however, I think that the business would be a lot healthier if we all had success. Yes success brings down prices, and that can be a negative, however, success is addictive, and those who have it will keep buying and buying, and the more success you have the better the business is going to be in the long haul. That is why I think Ball Pythons have passed up the Boas. They are EASY to have success with. With success come confidence, and the business booms. I know Boas are more difficult then the Balls, but if you really do the Math, they aren’t that much more difficult. I think with more info to help others breed, we would all be better off. I DIDN’T ALWAYS THINK THIS WAY. So for those who know me, I do feel this way now. LOL Boy is this a LONG soap Box. Tooo many issues all in One!!!!!! Lets have fun. Boas truly are the BEST herp of all Herps!!!!! Yes I did go into the BUSINESS aspect, and the reason I did so is because it REALLY is the reason we all have these animals in the first place!!!! Best of luck. I would be interested in replies. However, I can understand if there are none. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeremy Stone

Great Post,I think the opinions,ideas an problems you discussed in your post was great!It was very kool of you to come out an dicuss the things you did an not worry about what others thought!An I strongly believe you hit the nail dead on the head with your opinions on helping others out!Thanks for the detailed post I have tried my best to sink in all the information that I could today!Dang hard headed skull,lol!Thanks for posting!Eric![Hypoboa]
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

Thank you for taking your time to share your experiences and ideas on breeding. I understand your statements about others thinking that people who are openly thankful to breeders like yourself being butt kissers, but those who know me KNOW that I am not. It is also very true that this forum tends to form cliques, but in the end it is the TRUTH that matters and not much else, so if others get some entertainment value from talking about you (or me) then I say "more power to them". Like any business though, it is understandable that one FIRST take care of their customers and SECOND anyone else. I have not (YET) purchased any boas from you, and as such am not one of your customers, but the information that you have shared here is invaluable to me as a hobbyist and is greatly appreciated.

Experience is indeed the best teacher of all for it provides lessons that directly affect our own lives and animals, but it is also with the help of others that the hobby collectively improves itself. Kathy and I keep a moderate sized collection of boas and have dealt with mites, sickness, and even death and it is from that experience we have learned the most, BUT it is also from tips from breeders like you, Jeff Ronne, and Joel DuBay that we have learned much as well. This is only our second season of trying our hand at breeding,we were not successful last year. If we happen to enjoy success this year, I look forward to posting pics of new boa babies and you can bet I'll be thanking you again.

Denny Rimes

I'm surprised you got through the whole thing. I'm sure most people gave up when they saw all that writing. I know my wrists were tired. LOL Anyway, Best of luck to the both of you in your breedings, and I hope you continue to post more often. Happy Herping: Jeremy

Jeremy,

I wanted to let you know how much it is appreciated when someone of your expertise and reputation takes the time and effort to educate the 'masses' and not just your own customers. I remember when I first joined this forum a few years ago, being pleasantly surprised to see that you were active here, since not many of the 'big' names in the hobby are. I see many breeders stopping by to post pictures of their breeding successes, and I love seeing them. But even more impressive are the breeders who regularly come here to offer encouragement, advice and to share their knowledge, these are the people I hope to purchase animals from someday. I won't attempt to name you all because I'll end up forgetting someone and feeling terrible! But you know who you are, and I only hope you know how much you are appreciated by those of us just starting out.

BTW I don't think it's kissing up to say thanks!

Meryl