Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am taking snakes out of cycling and into breeding conditions. I have introduced my larger Banka-type male to a mid-sized female on two occasions. I left her with him for a couple of days pulled her out for few and then reintroduced them for a week. He acts as if she were invisible. They stay on opposite ends of the cage. I am not expecting to see him jump on top of her the minute he sees her, but he doesnt even act like she exists.

My blacks are making me nauseated. If I dont get my little male away from Athena he will shrivel up like a raisin. He is a horny little bugger. My other bloods will instantly sniff around soon after I put another snake in the cage. They generally move together over the course of a day or so. Not here.

Why dont I see any activity from this big (he really isnt all that big) male? The female has bred the last two years but I just purchased him this winter. Both seem very healthy and vigourous. Is he just shy and will take a little patience? Is he gay? Is he just getting lazy in his advanced years?(oh wait, thats me) I've already bought them two bottles of wine and I got her a little silk teddy, but no help so far. (It didnt do much for my wife either) Got any tricks?

steve

Hey Steve, If you just aquired the male this winter, he may not be acclimated well enough.If he is not comfortable, he may not be ready to breed.Are you sure that he is a male? Two females together, will likely do nothing,however, two males will attempt to copulate with one another.I have witnessed this first hand.I don't mean to imply that you aren't sure of the sex of your animals, not at all,but it is possible. I have had a supposed male breed and lay eggs.It has been my experince that males always seem to be willing to breed. You might want to probe him again, and maybe give him some more time to settle in. Good luck with your breeding! Kevin

Kevin

Funny you should say that. The snake was sold to me as a female. The seller is fairly well known and certainly has the ability to properly sex bloods. I will slander him in more appropriate circles. She arrived around Thanksgiving if I remember correctly. The animal also came in rotten condition including an enourmous mite problem. I fattened him/her up, got the mites exterminated and built a new cage for him/her. Once he got settled in and fat I sexed him and got 4 scales time and again. Secondary sex characteristics looked female all of the way and she was sold as a female. Not trusting my probe I hauled him an hour down the road and enlisted some help. This time we got five scales and a little visual confirmation as well. So she is in fact a he to my surprise. The snake is easy to handle, yet active. He eats well and appears 100% healthy. He seems incredibly well adjusted. We have a good herp vet in the area. I think I'll drag him in and see what we can see, though I am pretty sure health is not an issue.

The female is a proven breeder-so I "think" everything is right for breeding, but still nothing.

Thanks for the tip. I'll post any changes or results that might be of interest.

Steve

Steve, Females can probe up to 5 scales! Male bloods are typically 6-10 from my understanding. Sounds like you might have a female on your hands after all.

J
-----
"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Female bloods are unusual in that they will probe much deeper than female boids of most other species. Virtually all, adult female bloods will probe an inch and I have seen many females between 5 and 6 feet probe almost an inch and a half. In other words, it would not be uncommon for an adult female blood to probe to a depth of 4 or 5 subcaudals. Adult males will probe at least two inches, with larger males probing two and a half inches, typically 9 to 10 subcaudals. This one could easily be a female if you were probing full depth.

Kelly

Hey Steve, If she is only probing 4or 5 subs consistently it sure sounds like a female to me.It has been my experience that,males will easily probe twice the depth of a female, and usually more. I think it's 9to11 for a male 2to4 for a female,but if you happen to be using a smaller diameter probe, a female might probe as deep as 6or7.Dave Barker sent me that bit of information in an e-mail.

I was a little suspcious with 4 scales, and thus got I got the second opinion. 5 scales are not exactly definitive but leaning toward male, at least in my mind. On this snake 5 scales are certaily over an inch, aren't they? I wouldnt call myself a probe professional but the kicker came while we were jockying him/her around to probe we were treated to a nice display of hemipenes. This snake is certainly mature and I would expect the homologs to be developed but I am pretty sure what was displayed was hemipenes. Highly vascular (deep red)with considerable definition and structure. (sorry my hemipene nomenclature left my brain about 30 years ago along with my hair) To be honest I have seen more obvious displays from young adult males that tend to be a little feisty but all things considered I am still suggesting male.

I grabbed another mature female this evening and dropped her in to give it a test. (I'll post her pic in a few minutes) I'll let this girl hang out for a few days and see what happens. Then I'll drop a more obvious and frisky male in with him/her and see what happens there. You'd think that somebody would eventually lay an egg and straighten this thing out. It might end up being me!

Remember when Crocidile Dundee walked up and grabbed the transvestite by the crotch? Wouldnt it be nice if it were always that easy? It would sure move that whole dating and forplay thing right along too huh?

Thanks for the advice everybody. I sincerely appreciate the comments. Thats how we better ourselves and better our ability to keep our snakes happy and healthy. Keep em coming.

Steve