Reptile & Amphibian Forums

1- When a male loses interest in a female that he has courted and actively tries to get out of the cage and breeds when introduced with another female, how often does the first female not become gravid.
2- What is the success rate with 1 male and 2 females together.
3- Is the body temp of gravid females always significantly elevated or does it depend on litter size or percentage of sluggs.
4- How often do you see males only court at night with no courtship during the day.
5 - Have you seen gravid females continuosly lying sideways when gravid or only at the end of gestation
6- have you seen a large female only ovulate on one side and have a smaller litter one year than another year when both sides ovulate?
There are many more questions but I was wondering if anyone is willing to share answers to thses questions.
Bill Kirby

some response and discussion. I only have "one rat" research, so I don't feel worthy - but I do have a couple of "one rat" anecdotes relative to your questions.
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Linda Hedgpeth
lindafh@frontiernet.net
Sierra Serpents

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"

Bill, I know you are am experienced Breeder, and these Questions are awesome because even though you have experience with many of the questions that you asked, you are just looking for others opinions. I hope others would chime in on this. I know there are many breeders better then me that could also answer this, but I'll give you my takes. I am happy to discuss this stuff.

Question 1: I have noticed that OLDER more mature males will often Court for a long period of time, and then he wants out of the cage. I really believe that he senses that he has DONE HIS job, and he has deposited sperm in that female numerous times. I know this for a Fact happens with My Adult original Motley Male. He knows that he has done the job, and he wants to move on to the next. This can be frustrating because you would like the female to ovulate shortly after because this may increases the chance of a successful clutch. I know a female can carry that sperm for a few months and still ovulate. I have found something that may work. If you have a female that is “Stuck” in that process of not going further after being bred and bred, you can put her with a female that has ovulated or is moving along quickly, and that can stimulate her into ovulating. You really need to practice Strict husbandry practices when you do this, and make sure you take notes so you can isolate any future problems. I have noticed that Younger males will stick to the task longer then a larger more experienced male. Even the Experienced males can stick with that female until she ovulates too, so why would some leave? I can’t say for sure, but I do believe that the male has sensed that he has done everything he can to get that female gravid, and he wants no more of the same Female. That PIG!!!! How could he be such a player? LOL

Question 2: I have had great success with 1 male to two females. I find that these results are really variable depending on the size of the follicles of the female, and the length of time put into the process. I have gone to a system where I will designate 2 Females to 1 male, and NO MORE unless they are in a breeding group where they have access to more females. (I RARELY do groups, and most of my breeding is 1 to 1) Groups can be helpful though. Just keep good records.

Question 3: I have found that the Body Temps of females is Variable from one to the next. Most GRAVID females sit at 87 to 88 degrees, and that is the BEST temps for them. To maintain them at that temperature, you can have a room that is Ambient or a Hot spot that is constant. A female will let you know where she wants to be. If your hot spot is too hot, then the female sits on the other side. I think the IDEAL way to keep pregnant females is in a separate room that has Ambient Temps from 89 to 90. Albino Females seem to always be a couple degrees cooler then Normals, and I feel this is the reason many of them give a lot of slugs or premature litters. They don’t realize they can’t conserve the heat as easy as a pigmented female, and therefore sits cooler. I can’t explain this one, but I try to keep albinos hotter then Normals. (THAT IS A GOOD BREEDER SECRET REVEALED)

Question 4: I quite often see males court at night and not in the day. I can’t explain this either. You also have some males that breed 24/7. I have no clue why some only breed in the Night. I have a Sharp Strain Albino Male now that will ONLY court at night. Interesting: I would love to be in the mind of a Boa for just 1 Day!!!!!!!

Question 5: I have noticed that females that are Jam Backed can sometimes lie on their side. I know that I have RARELY seen a female that is giving slugs lay on the side, so I think that is a GOOD thing to see those females on the side. I also think they are trying to thermo regulate when they are doing this. It is either that, or they are just SICK of being pregnant, and that is comfortable. Lol

Question 6: I personally don’t think that a female will ovulate with ONE ovary and not the other. I think they either do both or NONE at all, but this is just my opinion. Following the Ultrasound I have never seen a Gravid female with the other Ovary producing smaller eggs for the previous year. I don’t know if I quite got this question right or answered it to what you are looking for.

Bill, Thanks again for these questions: I hope others share their findings as I am sure it varies among a few breeders. I have posted a TON lately and I’m starting to feel like I am acting like a KNOW IT ALL!!!!! I better lay low. (Actually I had the day off, so I could play a lot more). I certainly don’t think I know it all. I feel I have a good understanding of what is happening but if you haven’t been humbled by Boas, Stick around from year to year. I get STUMPED MANY TIMES!!!!! Best of luck in your breeding!!! I love the Forum, and I think others share a lot of great ideas!!!!!

Jeremy

Jeremy,
First off great post, lots of great info, very helpful for future breedings. I have a few questions regarding your post:

Question 1: When breeding 1 male to 2 females what would be a better choice and why. Having the females seperate and rotate the male through both cages or putting the male in with the 2 females in a group? Also would it matter any if this is a young male?

Question 2: If female Albinos sit at a cooler temperature when gravid, then would you recommend having a constant cage temperature of 88-90 on both cool and hot sides of the cage? If so would it be a problem that there is no "cool" retreat if needed?

Question 3: How do you feel about breeding Albino X Albino? Any personal good or bad experiences, like high slugs or still borns or even birth defects, any info on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for the great posts and very much needed info.

Chad

Chad, GREAT QUESTIONS:

Question 1: That really is a great question, and I really apply it differently to each group. If you have 6 foot cages, and a LARGE older male, it is good to have the 1.2 in with each other. I also have the benefit of having ultrasound technology. SOOO, if both females are growing large follicles at the same time, then it can be beneficial to put them in a 1.2 group. However, WHEN THIS IS DONE, I make sure that these are the ONLY 2 females that this certain male will breed. This is a NEW thing for me this year. I am only allowing my males go with 2 females unless it is a group breeding with more then 1 male where they have access to more females. (IN THAT CASE they are given a certain time frame for breeding). I’m also going to come out with incredible suggestions that I have noticed that keep the Males ENERGIZED and so they don’t loose a lot of weight. I’ll write that up in a future post on my site.

Your question about a Young male is VERY GOOD because I would never put a young male in a group of 2 females even if the follicles were large for both females. This ads a LOT of stress for the male, and he can be sooo busy with one female work her over, and before he finishes, goes on to the next and vice versa…. Young males when deciding to breed can be very aggressive and Immature. They will court the head of a female, and the mid section, and I really think the 2 females puts added stress. So, I would only do a 1.2 group with an EXPERIENCED male. Of course you could have success with a young male, but I’m giving you the NORMAL statistics of what I feel is right. Others may experience completely different results.

Question 2: YES, I would recommend giving albinos a CONSTANT temperature. If you put your ambient at 90, you’ll find the females still will sit at 88 to 87 So, I would think this is the best thing to do is give them an ambient with also a belly heat in one side that stays around 90 as well. Even though the temps are the same, that one side where the belly heat is on is a little warmer still. I have noticed NO ill effects of doing this, and the females really don’t need to be cooled. If they are too hot, they will crawl around constantly looking for cooler temps. So, if they are still, then they are happy. If they are crawling all over, it is too warm. I don’t think that 90 will bother them. If it gets up in the mid 90’s then I think they do need a cooler area, and will look for them. Also, Notice the WATER. IF they are drinking a lot, then they are also telling you that it is a little warm. That can also be a good indicator. I have really noticed that pregnant females LOVE fresh water. It is a smart thing to change the water and give them fresh water 4 times a week.

Question 3: GREAT QUESTION:::: I don’t think it makes a difference of albino to albino, or albino to het. I really think the problem lies in ALBINO FEMALES. Albino males have never been a problem for me. However, keep in mind that when you do albino to albino that the Baby albinos are the weakest of all babies. I like to do het to albino because that way there are some stronger animals in the group. Albinos can be very tricky when first born if they are born early or have a large yolk. I think your chances of a better litter is with a HET to Albino, but I don’t think the numbers will change from albino to albino. The problem again LIES in the ALBINO FEMALES reproductive process. I have had successful albino to albino litters with albino females, but it is pretty rare. I’m now using albino females to make other things instead of just albinos, so it has been awhile. I have started having much better success with Albino females in general. I also think this is due to me raising up babies that have been produced by me and have stayed at my set up their WHOLE lives. I was impatient in the late 90’s and bought a Lot of ADULT animals. BIG MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wasn’t getting KILLER results until I was raising up my own young where I knew the history of the likes and dislikes of the animal and was able to give them exactly what they like. It is amazing how different 2 Boas that are Littermates can differ in likes and growth.

I hope this helps. I’ll be happy to answer anymore questions like this!!!!!! Thanks for asking.

GOOD LUCK, Jeremy Stone

Just for fun I added a picture of BABIES!!!!!! I don't like the CYPRESS MULCH though!!!!

Jeremy,
Thanks so much, its always great to hear the workings of a top breeder.

Another few questions if you don't mind. Do you breed your females year after year or give them some time off?

Also do you control you humidity in your snake building? If so at what %?

What time of year do you introduce your males for breeding?

And last whats the minimum age & weight you consider safe to breed females, normal BCI s that is.

Thanks again Jeremy for the post valuable information.

Thank You,
Chad

Chad, Thanks for your comments. I really enjoy talking about this, and I don’t mind sharing my ideas. I usually won’t reply to questions such as this in email form unless they are from Customers of mine. However, I don’t mind posting this, because of people being able to refer back to this post in a few months when I get asked the same questions. Repetition is boring especially when it takes a long time to type the answer. I am a fast at typing, so I don’t mind long posts. LOL

Question 1: It really depends on the females. Some females will breed year in and year out. The longest and most consecutive female breeding is 6 years. The female was a LARGE Boa that really got pregnant very fast. I would notice she would get pregnant quicker and quicker in the year with 2 years being only 9 months a part. I always thought of giving her a rest, but she put on the weight so quickly after birth and her births were quite easy with few slugs. So, when I was about to give her a year off, She would always have these Big follicles again, and so I would breed her. However, LAST YEAR she died after giving birth. So, I really don’t know how good that really was!!!!!! I usually judge a female by the weight she has put on. After seing my Favorite Female die after being bred 6 years consecutively and giving 7 litters for me, I decided to take it a little easier. Right now, I have a few boas breeding that have gone 2 or 3 years and still look promising for the year we are currently in. However, it really is a case by case situation. Females that haven’t been sick or had anything go wrong in the off season seem to be ok to breed. Sometimes breeding takes a TON out of a female, and it is good to give her a rest. I think I’m going to limit my females at 3 years in a row, and give them a break regardless of the follicle size the next year. Also, I have noticed that the Smaller Imperators seem to breed quite easy and put the weight back on easier then the Columbians, but this is another topic. So, in conclusion, it is a case by case basis. Your animals really can tell you a lot by the way they act. IF you pay close attention, they’ll tell you if they can handle another breeding season.

Question 2: I’m in the process of building a new 6800 square foot Reptile Breeding Facility. Right now, I have 6 humidifiers that I run in the rooms, and I also do a lot of misting. The humidity is about 70 percent. They like it more humid though. I don’t live in a humid climate, so I have to provide more humidity then others would in more humid regions of the Country. I would image a Breeder in say Des Moines, Iowa, would not have to keep his room as humid especially in the summer because it is very humid there. Same with the Southern States. I also notice that spraying the floor and getting it all wet keeps the room very humid. In my new Buidling, I’m using In floor Radiant Heat. That will be a lot easier to keep humid. I will spray the floors, and the heat will be enough to cause the room to be very humid. I have an in floor drain system being put in as well, so that will be awesome. I can’t wait!!!!!!

Question 3: I introduce my males for breeding in mid to later November. In the beginning of November, they are fed their last meal. Some of those males will not be put in with females until January though. I really do more selective breeding now, then I used to in the past. It is easier if you have a few room to keep separate animals in. I have that luxury right now, but it is EXTREEMLY crowded. I breed during the cooling down process. I know some breeders don’t introduce the males until the warming season, but I notice that the follicles of the females are quite large in the cooling process, and the males really like to breed, so I allow this. I also breed some males much later in the year. Right now, I’m still trying to get 1 or 2 young males to breed. I am now breeding young males to only 1 female. Even if that male is 5 feet. If he is only 18 months, that is all he gets. Stretching your males thin is one of the worst mistakes you can make!!!!! Boas are unlike Ball Pythons. I will put a male ball with as many as 10 females. They breed sooo much different then the males, and the Balls don’t court like the Boas. THEY BREED!!!! (I am kidding, they do court a little, but nothing like a Boa).

Question 4: Very Important question. Weight is a hard judge. I have bred Columbians that are 8 lbs. However, the bloodlines of the animals were always smaller then the others. Also, Hypo Boas that have some Central Bloodline down the road can breed a LOT smaller then Columbians. I prefer my Columbians to be a minimum 12 pounds though. That is a good average weight. The better Judge is AGE instead of weight. I will NEVER breed a female under 2 and ½. I have done it in the past and I have killed a lot of Boas in the Past!!!!!!!! I was very impatient, and I lost animals unnecessarily. I think it is irresponsible for ME to allow a female to breed young as it really shortens the life span IN MY OPINION!!!!!! Right now we have an 18 month old Double Dose GHOST!!! She is 12 Pounds and has follicles that are 18 mm’s. I know for a fact I could breed her and she could probably go and give a litter. IT could be slugs, but it could be good babies and a future death sentence on this beautiful animal. These are just my opinions, and others could experience things different, but his is my take.

Again, Hope it helps. Later, Jeremy

I've been breeding for almost 16 yrs now. I've NEVER witnessed ovulation......ever! Which in return throws me off on calculating a due date! By any chance.... is there an usuall # of days from breeding to ovulation ? I realize this question is out there, just wondering. I look @ my boas @ least 3 - 6 times a day. I've got one gravid & 2 females breeding. I would really enjoy the oppertunity to witness ovulation,which I realize the female does by manually moving her unfertilized eggs down to become fertilized with the males sperm. ANY info would be GREAT ! Thanks for looking,
Dave
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Actions Speak louder than words.
Dave @ East TN Reptiles

Dave, WOW, that is pretty suprising that you haven't been able to witness this. I don't want to sound too confident, but I bet you 100 bucks if you have been breeding that long, that you HAVE witnessed this. You may have disregarded this as as something else though.

It is pretty uncommon for me to miss ovulations of each female. Of course I can't say for 100 percent sure that she is OVULATING right when I'm looking at her, but she is in the process of ovulating which can take up to 3 days for a female to expell all her ova.

Here are some suggestions. Females won't feed 2 to 3 weeks before they ovulate. So, I would recommend weekly feedings of very small items. If you don't feed your females, then this may be of no use, but I can promise that it won't hurt the females if you try to offer a meal of small size weekly. When you notice your females don't want to take food, watch them very closely for the next few weeks. Write down ALL shed cycles that follow this. When you witness a shed, write it down, and babies are probably on the way in 105 days after this. Sometimes females don't give Post Ovulation Sheds, so this can be tricky, but that really is only occuring in about 15 percent of females. So, look for SHEDS, and write down days and try to calculate from those days. Also, Males tend to quit breeding about a week to 3 weeks before a female ovulates. So, watch carefully when those males QUIT. When this happens and a female SHEDS, write that down. Then reintroduce the Male. If the Male wants NO part of her, it is probably becasue she is gravid, and she is not letting off pheremones anymore.

Also, Some females Ovulate different from others. I am sure your females are probably not giving you massive ovulations. Check for swelling in the mid to low sections of the body about 18 to 22 inches below the heart. As an ovulation gets near the end, the tail near the vent is usually a little larger then normal.

I hope this helps. This goes to show you that no matter how many years we have been breeding, that we can always learn something new. I bet you have some knowlege or some ways of getting your females to breed that would benefit someone else in here. Maybe Me. We can never stop learning.

Best of luck in your breedings Dave, and I would LOVE to find out when you have your litters if you were able to pick up on anything that was mentioned in the forum that was of benefit. IF SO, PLEASE POST IT!!!!!!

Jeremy

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Actions Speak louder than words.
Dave @ East TN Reptiles

Jeremy,
Thanks again for the great info, ill be adding these posts to my future breeding file. One last thing then ill leave you alone. You stated earlier that you have a Ghost that is 18 months, at 12lbs? How did you get the snake so big so quick. Whats your feeding schedule for babies through 18 months to two years? Also do you feel the Ghost is to heavy for only being 18 months? Again thanks for all the posts and very helpful information. Good luck with your HUGE building, hope you put up some pics on your new website when its all finished. Thanks, Chad

Chad,

I see your point. I have traded for this ghost in the Summer. I didn't raise her from a baby. However, she was fed aggressively. I do think that she is large for her size, and quadroople the size of some of my 03 animals. However, she really isn't a fat slug either. She is quite slender and long. I imagine she has a lot more Columbian Blood in her then she does CA. I actually went down to get her EXACT weight. 12 Pounds was my guestimate because of her size. She is 10 pounds 12 ounces. Sorry for the wrong guestimate.

Just so you know, My feeding schedule on babies is 1 meal every 7 days. NO MORE for the first 8 months of their lives. I then increase to what I feel is necessary. The 1 time a week for the first 8 months also has prey sizes that start out a fuzzy mouse to a large mouse, or Rat Pup. Take Care, Jeremy

Jeremy Good Chatin With you..n/p