Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have bred kings and milks several times. The fact that my trio of proven adult hondurans won't lock up makes me think I'm missing something that I'll think is silly when I figure it out. These snakes are all proven to breed with each other, all have good weight, and were brumated at 55 degrees for 10 weeks, after each of 4 sheds since then, I put the females with the male, and he just doesn't seem interested. Should I give them a second cooling phase? What am I missing here?

Thanks in advance for your help.
F.R. Murphy

You said..."after each of 4 sheds since then". Are you saying they shed 4 times and then you introduced them for the first time? If so try from the second shed on. Maybe you're missing the best window of opportunity? Just a guess.....Tom Stevens

It sounds like you have this trio that was proven but not by you, Correct? A few questions for you. Have you sexed them yourself to be sure of what you have?
Your time frame and temp sounds good but I question what were your dates of this to get 4 sheds from them now to date. Here in the US, Feb. is when most start to remove them from the cooling / photo period and begin to warm them up and offer meals to them. To get 4 sheds by now has me thrown? This would have to be 45 days to get this many after there warm up? We pair them up after the 2nd shed and the 3rd shed is there prelay and 10 or so days later we find the deposited eggs.
I question the sex of what you have to be sure. If they are what you were told then I would stick with it but something does not sound rite...
My .02

I have probed them, and they are what I was sold. As for the dates, here in IN, an unheated basement stays about 50 or so all summer, so mine hibernated through mid Oct. That is how they've shed 4 times since then. Also, I placed them with the male right after they shed every one of the 4 times they shed, with no results. Do you think a short brumation (ala double clutching) might be a thought? I'm frustrated. I've never had this problem with Lampropeltis of any type before.

Thanks in advance.

F. R. Murphy

question..what other colubrids have u bred?

im not sure if im reading what u said correctly, but u brumated them in the summer? then brought them out of cooling in mid oct???? please clarify yourself...u should have brumated them STARTING in mid oct/nov and brought them OUT of cooling mid feb/march...whats what i've always done- currently i work with pyros and alterna, but have also bred/hatched corns, other kings and lots of milks. however i also work with ball pythons, and they CAN breed in the late fall/winter but most go in the spring.

good luck to you

-jon

Are you given them a spring photoperiod or are they getting winter photoperiod from outdoors?

Paul Hollander

I think adam's conservative--four sheds would take more like 12 weeks, 84 days, at a minimum, imho. In any case, the schedule you outlined makes more sense of that.

My guess would be that while animals CAN be acclimated to breed any time of year under artificial conditions, yours probably bred in prior years on a normal schedule, as others have specified here, and you're trying to change that abruptly--and, apparently, unsuccessfully.

May I ask why? If you can keep the temps up from oct to nov, then surely you could keep them up in your summer. What was the motivation to do the opposite? Did you breed your other colubrids on this sched? Were they animals you perhaps raised from hatching on a similar cycle, while these hondos were bought as adults? Most of us wouldn't try to do what you're trying...or if we tried it for some reason, we probably wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work, at least for a year or two.

How you get out of this weird schedule is a tough question. you mentioned a second, brief brumation "(ala double clutching)" but no one i know brumates to double clutch, just the opposite: aggressive feeding. However you try to unsort this, keep paul's comment about periodicity in mind, too: brumation includes altering temps, light, and withholding or greatly reducing feed.

good luck and i look forward to more info from you.
terry