Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ive grown really tired of all this marketing hype about the Cities listings and this and that. They arent paying anymore for the animals i dont care what they are saying!!!

IMPORTER PRICES(and this is on the high side)
Satanics.....$25ea
ebenaui......$25ea
frim.........$25ea
line.........$25ea
mossy........$25ea
CORKBARKS..........$55-$60EA

The problem is most importers lose up to 50% of the shipment if they dont move it fast because they dont care for these geckos properly(food,water,mistings). So they raise the price then the people that sell them on the classifieds have to pay more and they raise their price.

PAYING $250 A PAIR FOR FRESH IMPORTS IS STUPID! IMHO

I think most of the people that are selling the corkbarks on KS.com are jobbers that buy from the importers. By the time they are offered to us they have gone through 4 sets of hands (the collector, the exporter, the importer, then finally the jobber). Also, it's supply versus demand. Not many are imported and a lot of people want them.
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Derek Moynihan
Fat, Flat Lizard Ranch

I seriously wish those were prices still being paid for the animals.....
If so let me know who has them that cheap, even in Madagascar they are not that cheap....anymore anyways.....
Corkbarks out of madagascar are minimum 100-125ea
Everything else is 35-50each
Then the importers put their profit on it.
Figure this:
Cost of an animal-100.00ea
Freight(between 20-30% added on per each animal, friehgt is very high nowadays)new price 130.00
plus 2% from broker fees, fish and wildlife fees, and possibly overtime fees(being they usually come in late at night)
Then factor a few animals that die, which is unavoidable, but nowhere near how you describe of 50% losses, more like 2-3%
and you have an animal that now simply costs about 150.00
Then factor in the importers profit margin and that animal is now 200.00
So lets see, either your info is completely wrong, or you have someone that gives away animals and either
1: likes to lose money, or
2: ends up not paying for the animals anyways.

Now for your info on 50% losses, and importers not carring about their animals, that is also totally false, where are you getting your info from, the 1980's??? when we didnt even know how to take care of uroplatus and other species anyways, or are you getting your info from the super cheap exporter?????
Do you actually think the importers want to LOSE potential money, its a business and to be a succesful business, you need to make money. Do more research first, I think you do not like the prices because maybe you cannot afford them and remember the days of 100 a pair of satanics.
Supply and demand is a major factor, and they have computers in madagascar and look on these types of sites, they are not simply ignorant as to why importers are trying to get as many uroplatus as possible....its just not happening anyways.
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

Ive bought and sold plenty of uroplatus. I have been and delt with plenty of importers...

Go check out Alinereptiles.com, he keeps his imports either outside in screen cages or in a shed in the back of his south florida home. No crikets in sight! I can name 2 more just like him that are all BIG names in the business.

LMAO

I have been to Alines place and know them extremely well for over 8 years. There are no crickets in the cages at all. You are 100% right about that. Reason being either
1: you werent there at night
or
2: you never saw the rubbermaid containers placed throughout the cage at night on top of the crickets thrown about.

Yes the price is higher than it used to be on alot of Uroplatus.
Reason being not only import export costs and markups but because of supply and demand. Importers are not giving the stuff away, and neither are exporters. Now with new ergs coming into place very soon if not already, only 20 uroplatus species of each kind per shipment except cork barks which are placed on a pretty much" yes or no" shipping only basis as is anyways.
With rumors and legislation in place to pass new laws to make it even harder to get them, I see that you better get them now before later. Look at Monkey Tail Skinks....you just never know....
Also, Out of ALL (but very few) shipments I have gone through this year, I can honestly say that there was no more than MAX 3-4% DOAS, maybe 2% before landed, and 2% after.
It may vary a % or two , but that is not no 50% as others claim.....
Sorry but I go through them myself all the time, and take pics,the only DOAS in big numbers are mantellas. That also depends on who ships them. If they come in individual vials, you have less than 1% mortality if in cups of 5 or ten, you will have 10% mortality. Depends on shipper.
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

i would have to agree more with the first statement rather than this statement. not arguing over prices seeing as how i don't deal directly with any importers, i would have to say that a much higher than your " more like 2-3% " die during importation. unless if you're directly taking the animals out of their shipping enclosure, and watching each one individually being sold, and a week or two after it is being sold. then i would guess your numbers are extremely low. let's say you're one of the very caring people who keep uroplatus and you have 2-3% die. that is much more realistic. there are so many that come in dehydrated or on an empty stomache that just don't come out of it without a ton of care that most large scale importers/sellers just don't have time to care for.

Well,

I do deal with several importers and can say this in the least.

MNR you are full of it. In the last 3 months I have taken on approximately 45 leaftails and in the three months I've lost about 9% of my animals that were imported.

Yes I do know how to keep these animals, I've been breeding them for some time now. If I'm losing that many animals because of severe dehydration, what does that say about the importer and the exporter. As for the prices we get, go talk to a few pet shops out there. If you do not have a tax ID you do not get cheap deals, period.

cheers
jason

If you lose that many then it makes them that much more valuable.....think about it, it surely sucks you lost so many , but think of it this way....if you werent losing that many and they bred like pictus, they wouldnt be in such demand and the like right?
There is a difference on buying straight off the boat and getting it shipped to you as soon as they come in, and getting them shipped to you once they are rehydrated and fed.
For that extra little effort, they are worht that much more.
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

"remember the days of 100 a pair of satanics. "

Yea, those were the days... 2 years ago.

I bought a PAIR of ebanaui for $32 once... kind of a freak thing, but I wasnt complaining.
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www.wildeyereptiles.com

Chameleons, geckos & invertebrates

yea, at the SC reptile show in 2003, i found a vendor that must have had around 15 or so satanics for $35 a pop. too bad they were all males and that was back before i had the money i have now.

i just wish there werent so many hands to go thru, at which the price gets bumped up every time. i still find it weird though how at the end of january i was able to find a vendor at the SC show selling lineatus and sikorae for $50 each (yep, thats why i have a pair of sikorae now), and i think $75 each for fimbriatus. dont know if its the fact that they have closer ties with importers or just dont have to go thru the same middlemen, or even if the guys messed up the price. anyway, i got out with a deal i dont think ill ever find again.

as for the corkbarks, yea id say im not pleased with these greatly varied prices. a couple weeks ago, reptile depot was selling them for $150 a piece, and those sold out fast. i consider $150 to be an average price since i started looking for them a year ago. now they're going for at least $200 a pop. you gotta consider that the pietschmanni just arent imported in the same numbers, and the guys who can get their hands on them before anyone else of course are gonna try to make a profit on it. honestly, im glad to see they're back on the market at the moment because i am dying for one last male before either a) prices double again or b) we don't see them anymore. of the 3 i have, which ive had for a little less than a year now, i paid $150 for single female LTC from russ gurley (worth every penny), and $200 for a pair at the raleigh reptile show. im hoping that someone comes up with a male so i can finally top off my collection. i have 2 fat females that are dying for the affection of another male, which my current male won't seem to give them. :

Breeding loans are going to be commonplace, the more the market dwindles and the available animals are few and far between.

You are more than welcome to send them to me - my male would probably have a heart attack with that many girls around.
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www.wildeyereptiles.com

Chameleons, geckos & invertebrates

If you think about it, it is a retail market. Aimed at people trying to procreate the animals themselves and start viable breeding colonies.
They sincerly dont go through many hands though. You got the exporter(trapper counts as exporter, they catch and deliver and get put into planted enclosures and then "recaught" to be cupped for shipping when an order comes in) to the exporter to the retailer. In my case they go to the exporter but I am there to help unpack and pick out the shipment so in essence only two hands. I do not get them shipped to me. They dont sit at an exporters place, sometimes never even leaving the deli till I SET them up at my facility. Thats three hands, that is what most of them go through unless you buy from a show then they probably went from importer to distributor, and maybe another distributor to a show guy or pet store. thatas four.
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

1 trapper
2 exporter
3 importer
4 you

THATS FOUR HANDS! You are the fourth set of hands.

if the animals came in to our country in fraction of the good condition you are describing, I would never ever have any deaths from dehydration. When the animals get to me and are showing not only their hip bones but their spines they have been through a hell of a lot more than anything you describe. Now if you are seriously telling the truth put your money where your mouth is. Ship one of us some fresh imports and prove how great of condition they come in to the states from Madagascar. With a country in such a state of poverty as madagascar do you seriously think the individual trappers give a damn about a gecko if they can sell it to make money for food for their family?

I didn't do business with you before because of all the sketchiness around your name, and I sure as hell won't believe an outright lie.

good day sir, good day

Lol.
You have a mentality of someone living in the 80's and 70's when that was esactly the case.
If the exporter doesn't recieve good animals fromt he trapper eithero ne, he tells the trapper no good, no money. or two he takes the animal and pays the trapper a tiny fraction of what the going price is. Teh trappers know this thus provide quality animals to the exporters....its their livlihood and they got families to support, etc. So why would they try to make less money or NO money.
Exporters dont get paid for no tailed, bad condition, or DOA animals.
So the exporter has to make sure the animals he gets are good.
The jobber has to make sure the animals are good to sell them and if the importer sells them bad, then the jobber will look somewhere else. Remember all entities involved have something they need to support.

For your information I have shipped fresh in the country geckos(2-3 days after being picked out) with no problems at all.
I know an importers who get them in, water them and resend them the same day to their final "breeder" destinations.
No problems.
Most people are extremely happy with their purchases from what I hear, and from what I have experienced. One day, find an importer, that gets a fresh shipment in and YOU look it over.
Then come back to me and tell me what you have seen.
Remember Fed Ex/ UPS delays, getting to hot, to cold in transit to you dont count for the original condition of the animals.
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

Sorry for all the mispellings and grammar errors.
I was in a different world watching a pair of corkbarks breeding here on my desk. They seem to be enjoying it. I think I got them a week ago?
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

No sense in arguing with you. You are a jobber. Any thing I say you will argue to death. I'm ending this here because its wasting everyone else's time on the forum. before you continue about your this and that breeding for you think about how if I'm arguing about how the animals come in poorly and the drastic increases in prices... that should hint that there is a lot of die off, less animals and higher prices to accomodate the loss. Now figure that I don't sell my animals but to a few people, one in particular who is on this forum and can attest to how much I sold a group to him for. but broken down, its $65 per animal give or take the whole shipping costs and time I had the animals in my care for. If I'm selling them for that price do you really think people like me are the cause for jacking up the prices. Also considering I sold all my CB ebans for 75 a piece. Think again before you blame anyone for the raise in price. I'm cheap and I'll admit. Remember you're the one who gave the breakdown for why it costs you 150 a piece for your corkbarks wholesale. BTW, LLL sold a few pairs of cork barks for 200.00 a pair. Who's jacking the price there buddy?

cheers

I am not arguing with you, I am stating facts. You seem to have a different perception of facts. LLL Reptile had a few pairs for 200.00 pair. I know this.....that was when they bought them at probably 75.00ea and marked them up 50 bucks. I think a importer in CA brought them in and sold them for 65 or 75. Anyways, that was a while ago.
They didnt advertise them as other stuff so didnt sell them as fast.
I have had people offer me 600.00 for pairs.
I paid more than 150 for the last pair I got.
Alot more in fact.
See if LLL will sell their next batch for 200.00 a pair.
I highly doubt it as they are charging 100-125 out of madagascar now for them.
You told a friend of mine you sold your satanic babies for 150-and others at 100
that is 235.00 a pair shipped, where is the huge mark up? as I charge 235 a pair shipped as well, and sell exceptional colored ones for 285.00 a pair shipped. WHats wrong with that? Are you actually jealous I and others actually get them before you can get choice picks SHIPPED to you from the wholesaler??? and are charging more for exceptionals than normal colored ones?
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

...I've never produced satanics... I've got my first six eggs in my cold room right now. I've only successfully bred ebanaui.

anyways, you have my email address. Check the Fimbriatus response I sent you.

Also if you email me, I will gladly email you the invoice for the corkbarks I had advertised for 500.00 a pair SHIPPED.
Anyways,
Doyou not recall that I sold a 1.3 group to someone for 550.00 for the group???? I obviously paid 90.00 for them correct?
I could sell them at that price bt with the exporter charging more and the importer charging more(obvisouly they are a business and need to make some kind of money) that I or others from NOW on will be able to sell them for those prices anymore?
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

i didnt wanna get in the argument, but yes, its the biggest group of animals i have bought to date, and each one that i got was in nearly tip-top shape. so thank you very much for those jason, i dont think ive ever been so confident of the condition of my new arrivals...

as for the condition of animals coming in, i would agree in saying that many come in in bad condition, but i cannot point a finger at any point along the chain of people before i see them. do i think the dehydration problem with new imports could be fixed? yea, not necessarily for everyone but i do think losses could be cut all the way from the importation process to the point where the animals make their final destination. would a cut to the losses lead to somewhat lower prices? i doubt it, but who knows for sure? like its been mentioned before, its all supply and demand (as if the demand for uroplatus hasnt long been higher than supply).

as for prices, ive never had any access to wholesale prices or whatnot so i cant say anything. i do believe that there was some ridiculous pricing from some vendors even prior to CITES taking effect early january. but when i get info about a seller, thats the major determining factor as to whether or not im gonna pay a price 2x or more than usual. basically, a seller cant just say "heres geckos that are about to become rare, so pay this now cuz i bet prices will be higher later" and get me to buy.

Also,
two things:
1: Wild satanics or other leaftail are not "fat" as we have them ehre feeding the crickets almost everyday. They are on the lean side as are most reptiles that are wild caught, ever see a fat burm in the wild? well they are "skinny with spine" showing when you catch them, same with bloods, most monitors, most geckos, even leo geckos from pakistan, etc, etc
2:From a business point of view although some may take it the wrong way.
Thanks to gecko enthusiasts like you, you keep the prices up, and even raise them. By stating that they come in horrible condition, people go the extra buck to buy the hand selected ones, etc. I have to thank you for that. Not only does it justify the higher prices even MORE but it even is capable of raising them even higher due to the false interpretation that only a very few survive shipping and thus they are evn rarer and more sought after.

Did I mention that being a trapper means that the person in charge of the exports and business deals is actually about 70-80% family members?
Technically meaning they go through 10-12 hands for everyone that touches them, but in reality only 3 hands. Trapper/Exporter as most are related and work together for the same business entities, importer, then businesses like mine and Ballroom.
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

Prices on uro's are going to go up and to expect them to stay the same is ludicris. Having said that I'm sure there are a few "jobbers" who do charge a little more than they could, but hey if you don't like the price then don't buy the animal from that person. That's a great way to make your case. And if you can ideed get them for that cheap, please buy some and post them for sale or just email me at BadAssHerps@hotmail.com with prices and pics and I'll buy them off you in a heartbeat. I'm sure some of it is hype but hey it makes sense doesn't it?
- Eli