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Some Uroplatus Phantasticus ???'s (Satanics Leaf Tails)

psylynt Feb 22, 2005 01:48 PM

I'm receiving a pair of U. Phantasticus tomorrow. Have a few questions...

Here's what I have:

Just bought a 20 gal. 'high' tank w/ a screen lid. I've got several attractive plants (pothos, schefflera, selaginella, fittonia, ficus, asian jasmine) to choose from that I believe will do well in the enclosure & a couple of select pieces of driftwood I've had for a while. The plants are checked for toxidity on http://www.anapsid.org/resources/plants-ag.html. All checked clean.

I've got a lobster roach colony setup as a supplemental food source to a pair of crested geckos. Roaches are easy to care for, don't make any noise, very nutritous... but, hard as hell for me to catch. My crested's seem to like them very much.

I'm planning on using a naturalistic vivarium type setup w/ an organic substrate. Looking to follow recipe mentioned on the site below. Plan on using the "Forest Floor" mix. Contains decomposing leaves, coconut fiber, & orchid bark.
http://www.livingunderworld.org/amphibianArticles/article0021.shtml

Questions:

1.) I plan on gutloading the roaches & dusting them w/ calcium before feeding. Should I consider keeping other feeders? Have you heard of anyone feeding them crested gecko diet/fruit as a supplement?

2.) The geckos are W.C. & have only been treated w/ panacur @ a 1/4 strength. Should I treat these geckos again (possibly w/ flagyl also)? Can I ask any vet for these drugs?

3.) Should I quarantine the geckos in a sterile (paper bag, plant, twigs, etc.) enclosure for a while (~30 days) before placing them in the naturalistic setup they will be in permantely to make sure their enclosure does not get infested w/ parasites?

4.) What's the average life span of a captive U. Phantasticus live (can't find it anywhere)?

5.) Can any suggest a bulb/lighting that will be beneficial for the geckos as well as one that will help the plants grow?

6.) I've read different places that some suggest more than one pair in one enclosure is believed to help to induce breeding. Seems that the aggression between the males causes 'activity' among the geckos. Does anyone know if this is true? Do you know of any that have had regular breeding success w/ just one pair?

7.) Is keeping the vivarium on a window sill a bad idea as this one available window gets direct sun the majority of the day? It's got a nice sill on it that will fit the 20 gal. 'tall' perfectly. Was thinking that's great for the plants... but, is this bad for geckos as it could quite possibly get over 80 deg. inside the tank. My apartment usually stays in the lower to mid 70's constantly, but the sunlight in the aquarium could possibly trap the heat...

8.) If the "Forest Floor" mixture as described above a proper substrate for the satanics? Should I have any concerns with this mixture? Anyone have any other suggestions for a good substrate?

9.) If the "Forest Floor" mixture is an appropriate one, does anyone have any suggestions for the type of tree leaf litter to pursue? Oaks are toxic (according to Anapsid). Any other suggestions?

Any help/comments/suggestions are appreciated for any of the above questions I've asked.

I'm looking forward to my new pets very much & want the best for them.
~Ben Guillaume
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0.0.2 Crested Geckos (Milkdud, Cosign)
0.0.2 Common Snappers (Bubbles, Shoe Shine)

Replies (9)

Dave A. Feb 22, 2005 04:41 PM

Here's what I have:

Just bought a 20 gal. 'high' tank w/ a screen lid. I've got several attractive plants (pothos, schefflera, selaginella, fittonia, ficus, asian jasmine) to choose from that I believe will do well in the enclosure & a couple of select pieces of driftwood I've had for a while. The plants are checked for toxidity on http://www.anapsid.org/resources/plants-ag.html. All checked clean.

I've got a lobster roach colony setup as a supplemental food source to a pair of crested geckos. Roaches are easy to care for, don't make any noise, very nutritous... but, hard as hell for me to catch. My crested's seem to like them very much.

I'm planning on using a naturalistic vivarium type setup w/ an organic substrate. Looking to follow recipe mentioned on the site below. Plan on using the "Forest Floor" mix. Contains decomposing leaves, coconut fiber, & orchid bark.
http://www.livingunderworld.org/amphibianArticles/article0021.shtml

Questions:

1.) I plan on gutloading the roaches & dusting them w/ calcium before feeding. Should I consider keeping other feeders? Have you heard of anyone feeding them crested gecko diet/fruit as a supplement?

2.) The geckos are W.C. & have only been treated w/ panacur @ a 1/4 strength. Should I treat these geckos again (possibly w/ flagyl also)? Can I ask any vet for these drugs?

3.) Should I quarantine the geckos in a sterile (paper bag, plant, twigs, etc.) enclosure for a while (~30 days) before placing them in the naturalistic setup they will be in permantely to make sure their enclosure does not get infested w/ parasites?

4.) What's the average life span of a captive U. Phantasticus live (can't find it anywhere)?

5.) Can any suggest a bulb/lighting that will be beneficial for the geckos as well as one that will help the plants grow?

6.) I've read different places that some suggest more than one pair in one enclosure is believed to help to induce breeding. Seems that the aggression between the males causes 'activity' among the geckos. Does anyone know if this is true? Do you know of any that have had regular breeding success w/ just one pair?

7.) Is keeping the vivarium on a window sill a bad idea as this one available window gets direct sun the majority of the day? It's got a nice sill on it that will fit the 20 gal. 'tall' perfectly. Was thinking that's great for the plants... but, is this bad for geckos as it could quite possibly get over 80 deg. inside the tank. My apartment usually stays in the lower to mid 70's constantly, but the sunlight in the aquarium could possibly trap the heat...

8.) If the "Forest Floor" mixture as described above a proper substrate for the satanics? Should I have any concerns with this mixture? Anyone have any other suggestions for a good substrate?

9.) If the "Forest Floor" mixture is an appropriate one, does anyone have any suggestions for the type of tree leaf litter to pursue? Oaks are toxic (according to Anapsid). Any other suggestions?

Any help/comments/suggestions are appreciated for any of the above questions I've asked.

I'm looking forward to my new pets very much & want the best for them.
~Ben Guillaume

Ok, Ill start by saying good luck with geckos, they're really a joy to watch. Ill start with your questions directly then make a few comments afterwards.

1) Phantasticus are small geckos. Im sure you realize this but when I got my pair they were much smaller than I imagined they would be. This in mind, the roaches you feed will need to be small, and Im unsure of phantasticus jaw stength, but I dont imagine the exoskeleton of a small roach would be too much to handle, they can crush snail shells afterall. If they take to the roaches that should be fine as a staple, as far as other feeders, thats up to you though I would recommend getting snails for them when you can. Local land snails (check for toxicity beforehand) make an excellent calcium source and the phants will suprising eat them up if they catch their eye.
As far as feeding the crested gecko mixed diet, I dont believe I've heard of anyone trying it, and I dont personally think they would take it anyways. If they are feeding on roaches then I would stick with that.

2) Talk to a local vet (preferable a few, to compare) and see what they know about treating exotic and small animals. They should be able to get the medication for you, though before you treat your animals, get a fecal done. Any vet office should be able to do this for you, and if your into microbiology you can do it yourself.

3) As I understand from your post, you dont yet have your naturalistic enclosure set up yet. Which means you will have to have them in something else before hand. This is recommended anyways, and if you can house them seperately that is even better. You can monitor the health of each one individually, monitor stools and eating much easier.
As the naturalistic set up is concerned. It's really not as easy as you think. There is a lot to think about here. The lighting for the plants, pruning the plants, and the list goes on and on. My advice here is to set it up, and having it "running" for about a month before introducing the geckos to it. This should be enough time to make sure humidity and temperature levels are going to be maintained, as well as remove any plants that arent doing so well and so forth. Make sure you clean the plants extremely well before planting them in the vivarium as well.

4) No way of telling to be honest, depends on the age of the gecko when he was captured. In my best guess, a good while. There are people that have kept these geckos for quite a while and have had their geckos in captivity for quite some time (5 years I believe).

5) Lighting should depend pretty much completely on your choice of plants, whether they be high light or low light plants. The natural light that enters the room through windows will be sufficient for the geckos to have a day/night cycle. The gecko's themselves don't have an extreme use of UV rays, though I do believe they are occasionally found in the wild sleeping in direct sunlight.

6)A single pair should be fine for regular breeding success. On a side note, breeding phantasticus isn't all that difficult, given proper conditions they will typically breed. They difficult part is keeping the hatchlings alive. Especially for a person new to geckos. Agression between males may induce more "activity" but there is also a risk of serious damage being done to your gecko. A risk most keepers aren't willing to take.

7)The window sill is an extremely bad idea. The light coming through this window will quickly overheat the geckos in the tank. DO NOT PUT THE TANK ON THE WINDOW SILL.

8) That soil mixture should be fine. I personally use eco-earth or bed-a-beast. The only complaints I have with it is that it drys out oddly. The mix is likely a better option as it looks like it will retain moisture a bit better.

9) Ficus leaves are great for this. Find a home improvement store, walmart or similiar place that sells "tropical house plants" in the spring. (Should be in stores now) Ask them if they can keep any leaves that fall from the ficus trees or if you can gather up some yourself. Other than that, small leaves typically work best in my opinion.

Ok, any further questions feel free to ask them here or shoot me an email. As far as further suggestions. Let them settle in a bit before you really start to mess with them, and then once moved into the naturalistic set up, give them some more time. Make sure they get plenty of water as newly imported uroplatus have a tendancy to be dehydrated and especially phantsticus seem to dehydrate easily because of theyre small size.
When misting or watering the enclosure, try not to get the geckos themselves wet, basically dont intentionally soak the animals and make sure the water isnt too cold. Getting hit with water that is too cold can send the geckos into shock, ultimately resulting in their death.

Best of luck with them, and post some pics if you can.
-Dave

psylynt Feb 22, 2005 06:53 PM

That was very informative Dave. Thanks a lot. Answered many things I had on my mind.

I believe I will keep the geckos in seperate, sterile, 'simple,' enclosures for a month or so. Probably take fecal samples to the vet. I wish I had a microscope.. I did a little biology lab work in college.

Today I collected some dirt & leaves for the 'forest floor' setup, it looked like it was full of snail shells. I didn't see any live snails. Hopefully some babies in the mix. At least I found a good place to go look for more snails.

Couple of more questions if you don't mind:

1.)Another concern I have, is how often do you feed? I've read ever other day & every 3rd day. How many do you feed @ once?

2.) Should I let the roaches go in the enclosure, or should I feed them in cups? Seems like the roaches would just crawl right out though. I could put vaseline on the cup rim.. but the satanics would get it all over them.

Thanks again for your help. Makes me feel like I have a good game plan now. I plan to take some pics of my vivarium construction & geckos.

That reminds me... I found a CRAPload of super nice pillow moss outside my apartment right next a creek. I'd really like to include some in the vivarium setup. Do you suggest using it? I've seen some really nice setups with it.

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1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.0 Uroplatus Phantasticus

Dave A. Feb 22, 2005 07:06 PM

1) Feeding is up to you really. Just make sure they get a sufficient amount of food weekly. If you feed daily, feed fewer than if you feed every other, or every third day.

2)Im not overly familiar with lobster roaches, I dont have a colony nor have I ever feed them to any of my reptiles. If they can climb straight up glass you might have a problem there.
Feeding can be one of the hardest parts about keeping a naturalistic enclosure, unlike simple set ups its not easy to just come back in an hour and pick out the uneaten prey items.
You can try a feeding bowl, one that curls back on itself, and if need be line the inside of the bowl a bit back from the rim so the geckos wont get the vasoline on them, and still nto letting the roaches climb out.
I would try just dropping the roaches in one at a time, dropping them near one of the geckos, hopefully getting their attention. The problem here, at least in my experience is that phantasticus are wait and pounce hunters rather than chase it down.
You could also try a pair of long tweezers and hold the roaches by a back leg or something so they are capable of moving around just not running away.

3)Pillow moss looks nice... for a while at least, if your willing to do the extra work (gecko droppings are much more noticible on pillow moss) involved with the pillow moss, go for it. Just make sure to clean out the moss pretty well before you add it in to the enclosure.

psylynt Feb 23, 2005 11:49 AM

This male looks to be an adult & is in great shape. I believe the female is slightly younger (are they usually the same/different size as adults?). She seems fine other than the fact that the sides of her tail are curled over... I've read this is a sign of dehydration.

I've placed them in seperate enclosures & misted them down pretty good. I got the female to drink drops of water from the end of a pen I dipped in water.

Should I be concerned about the female dehyrating? Is this a fairly common thing? Will water suffice for rehydrating? Should I considering getting pedialyte for her?

Was also wondering if you knew what the weights of male/female satanics should be for successful breeding?

Thanks again for you help.
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1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.0 Uroplatus Phantasticus

flamedcrestie Feb 23, 2005 02:35 PM

there will be much more information available to you with TONS of very experienced keepers, and several not so experienced keepers. you will learn a lot more and get just about all of your questions answered fairly quickly. as for rehydrating, as many other people will very highly suggest, you should try to shower them.
on a light mist for 10-15 minutes and then let them stay on the wet foliage for another 15-30 minutes to drink it up. it is extremely helpful and there is no feasable way for you to do this with them in an enclosure without flooding it. i use a fake 4' ficus plant in the shower and it works incredibly! other things i've done is gotten like a 58qt sterilite container and stuck a large fake pothos in it.... this also worked quite well. hope to see you on the other forum and good luck with your satanics!

psylynt Feb 23, 2005 02:49 PM

Thanks for your hydrating tip. Will give it a try.

Hrmm... I might be missing something, but is the Uroplatus forum on kingsnake.com? I can't seem to find it.
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1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.0 Uroplatus Phantasticus

flamedcrestie Feb 23, 2005 03:06 PM

it's a sub-forum. when you click gecko forum on on the forums page. right between posting here and all of the hyper links at the top there are 4 sub categories.

psylynt Feb 23, 2005 08:32 PM

Thanks. I totally missed that.
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1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.0 Uroplatus Phantasticus

flamedcrestie Feb 23, 2005 08:48 PM

the forums were all on the main forum page, but now they have them in subcategories. i'm sure you wouldn't have missed it the old way. it's nice this way though because the photos go specifically into the uroplatus gallery, or rhacodactylus gallery etc. you don't have to sort through photos to see what you want. anyways... i'm sure i'll see you over in the uroplatus forum soon enough.

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