Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys, I have a 6 month old Red Sumatran, I am trying to switch him over to frozen but he seems to wnat nothing to do with it. ANyt suggestions how to switch him over?
Thanks
Mike d

I've been told thats its best to switch to prekilled first and make sure the frozen dinner is HOT.

Other than that, I'd love to hear some tricks, cause I can't even get mine to take prekilled...

Here is what worked for me for the most difficult feeders:

1) Assuming you have been feeding live mice...start with feeding a frozen thawed mouse thawed in very warm water(not scalding hot!). The body temps should be 100-105F and thoroughly thawed.

2) Timing is everything! Feed in a low light room at night with the rodent still damp (just tap it dry a bit).

3) The snake should be in an ambush position like under substrate with its snout out or in its hide box with the head facing out. Using feeding tongs, grabbing the hind quarters or tail, introduce the rodent towards the head of the snake. He/she should see it coming, but not in a threatening manner. What ever you do, do not touch the snake with the rodent or tease the snake by slapping it with the rodent. This will create a completely different response.

4) Slightly jiggle the rodent to give it a slight living movement. If the snake is "buying it" you should see rapid tongue flicks or half-drawn held out tongue movement. This is a good sign. Keep up the facade until he strikes it or losses interest and pulls back. If he pulls back place, leave him be for a couple of days and repeat.

Some other points to keep in mind:
- don't try feeding a newly acquired snake immediately. Let them settle for at least seven days to relax.
- never slap the snake with the rodent because they will get defensive and make your task more difficult.
- try larger prey...really, sometimes they prefer an adult mouse when you think they should be eating a fuzzy.
- color sometimes matters. try black versus white rodents.
- never force feed.
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I have a girl that will always take live, and then sometimes she'll take f/t and sometimes she won't. She always "kills" the f/t tho, and then just doesn't eat it. Never killed a live and then not eaten tho. I've tried reintroducing f/t after that but she shows no interest what so ever. Any advice on this? The only friggin pet store near me charges like $4 for a small/medium sized rat.. so yea you can imagine..
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

I have one borneo that does this periodically, I hang on to the tail with the feeding tongs and keep pretending like the rat is fighting/struggling. It has been very successful depending on how hungry she is. The STP seem to like to get themselves fired up and have and incredible feeding response, IMHO. Even my most laid back male loves to attack his food. I never had a STP take a meal left in their cage. They always have to "kill" it.

If your STP drops the food, pick it up and reintroduce it again and give 'em a fight by tugging. Another problem I noticed is if you disturb them while they are trying to eat. So leave them be for a while.
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Support your local herp society
www.chicagoherp.org

Hey Rich,
I agree 100% with everything you've said here. I do the exact same thing with my STP's, as I have noticed that they do like a fight and will somtimes drop food if there is no struggle on the part of the food. Well said!
-Angel
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"Until we lose our self, there is no way of finding our self."
-Henry Miller.

I've tried this with her, and it seems to work with the others that occasionally drop it and then tag it again. However she seems to eat more consistantly when I just drop it in and dont let her see me touch it. It's like she doesn't want to eat "my" food. I was thinking longer tongs might help I'm kinda out of ideas.
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

i agree with what you are saying except for one thing. sometimes it is absolutely necessary to force feed. i had a snake a few years ago that stopped eating and absolutely refused any and all attempts at any type of food (mice, rats, pinkies, pups, f/k/f/k, live, etc) and was by definition almost malnourished to the point of death. i had no alternative but to force feed and this was done on the complete recommendation of the vet. im not saying that force feeding is okay. it is an absolute last resort. it shouldnt be done weekly if a snake wont eat. however there are situations that call for force feedings as a last (and only) resort.
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2.1.1 Blood Python
1.1 Redtail Boa
1.0 Dumeril Boa
0.1 Carpet Python

Did that snake ever recover and did it eat on its own? Was there any other health problems associated or husbandry that you changed? I agree it is last resort. Fortunately, I have not encountered an animal that has not turn around for me. After literally dozens of "problem-feeders".
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Support your local herp society
www.chicagoherp.org

this was 14 years ago. the snake was a ball python that a friend of ours had to get rid of. i have no clue of any problems that it may have had. it just refused to eat. after having it for 3 months and it not eating we took it to the vet and was told we would have to force feed it. about 2 weeks later we went out of town and apparently the heat went out (during the winter time) and we came home to find it dead. since then i have made it a point not to acquire any ball pythons.
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2.1.1 Blood Python
1.1 Redtail Boa
1.0 Dumeril Boa
0.1 Carpet Python

This is the exact method I use myself paying VERY close attention to the temp of the rodent
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Kevin
I am lost w/o spell check
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself."-unknown

Hey Rich,
Well said! I use this technique too, and find that it works very well when done correctly. Very nicely written I might add.
-Angel
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"Until we lose our self, there is no way of finding our self."
-Henry Miller.

It's a bit late now, but start out feeding FT. They love live, but what they have never had they won't miss. Once they have tasted the delights of live food you can imagine they might sulk of offered a less interesting FT alternative. This is not so difficult to achieve in the UK as it is against the law (or so i've been told) to offer live mammals as food.

Try day-old chicks, they should be about 5 cents US each and my Blood loves them much more than rodents.

Put the snake plus WARM food item in a separate container in a darkened room for an hour. No peeking! If the food item is still there after this time put the snake back home and try again another day.

Works for me, good luck.

Holy smokes and I thought we had some crappy laws designed to limit exotic pet keepers.

Oh and by the way NOTHING is .05 in the US any more even a gumball will cost .25 LOL (well not really that funny)
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Kevin
I am lost w/o spell check
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself."-unknown

Yup, 'fraid so.
Its even illegal for dogs to chase anything now- rabits, rats foxes....
Not mice though, for some reason your allowed to hunt mice with dogs, but not with snakes.
Our chicks are going cheap though (ha ha). They are a waste product from the egg industry- all the boys! I don't do double entendres, but if I did i could slip one in here!

-

It’s kinda like sticking a hungry person in a room with only vegetables. You eat what is available and in tight quarters with you. You’re also talking about an animal with security issues. Nice, quite, dark, confined space and nice little rodent just dying (already dead) to be eaten
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Kevin
I am lost w/o spell check
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself."-unknown

Bloods in general, especially young ones, are quite shy and can stress somewhat when handled or moved, more likely when in an unfamiliar or new environment. For neonate to young bloods, I place a small opaque container over the top of them within their own enclosure, along with the food item. You get the same effect you are looking for only you don't need to handle the youngster in the process. Just a thought.

Kelly

good Idea. though I believe many breeders keep their babies in smallish containers at first in which case moving is not necessary. however if you only have one or two and keep them in larger enclosures that would probably work.
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Kevin
I am lost w/o spell check
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself."-unknown

I usually start neonates in pretty small units but occasionally I have one that is a slow starter and the setup I described previously usually does the trick. Not only do you avoid disturbance, but also changes in substrate temperature. Feeding at night solves a lot of problems with neonates also. Another good way to start neonates is to put 2 to 3 inches of damp long spagnum in the cage and let them burrow into it. When you see them resting with just their nose sticking out of the spagnum, introduce a live weanling mouse at night. Works almost every time.

Kelly

I've had some success with tricking them to take f/t rats (as long as they're the right temp) by feeding a small live prey item first. When it's almost down and they are holding their heads up, place the f/t one in the snake's open mouth and hold it steady until it's down enough that it won't fall out if you let go. I've had stubborn snakes take f/t directly after doing this a while. Also, it can be cheaper than sticking with multiple small live prey items.

Hey all,

I have some bloods that are finicky eaters. I also raise alterna which are the world's champion fincky eaters. A significant percentage of the neonates will not survive despite massive time, money and energy put into saving them. If anybody can save them all I'd love to meet them. It positively breaks my heart to loose any animal. Thus my greyband collection has dwindled dramatically. When I look at finicky bloods I get worried but they seem to be easier to turn around/switch than many other species.

My attempts to induce feeding or switching include

1. Eveything Rich said

2. The small container idea

3. Do not disturb or handle them if avoidable.

4. Make sure the cage is warm enough(90 /-) during the day. They down-regulate metabolism when it is cool.

5. Be patient, very patient

6. Males dont seem to be as enthusiastic as females (maybe it's just mine)

6. And lastly, one thing that seems to make a huge difference in mine is the presence of other snakes. Bloods do not like to co-habitate. At times when I run short of caging I have placed a couple of juvies or older neonates together in a large cage. In some cases their appetite dropped dramatically.

Now, somebody come to my house tonight and get my darn Sarawak male to eat frozen and my coal black/red pinstripe altera male to eat anything more than once a month and I'll kiss you. That's not much incentive though huh?

Steve

This may have already been mentioned and I missed it but- have you tried "braining" the FT mouse? It is pretty gross but if you cut the head and expose the brain matter (even rub a bit of it on the nose of the mouse) many snakes will go nuts for it. I've got a utility knife that is devoted solely to this.

Also try washing the mouse with hot water/soap and then scent it with a live mouse or used mouse bedding. Sometimes they just don't like that freezer smell.

Good luck!

Lindsey