Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have 3 Western Skinks that I am having problems with. First of all, one of the skinks is much smaller than the other two. I always thought maybe it was because he was a different gender than the other two, but I recently read online that both sexes stay about the same size. I caught them all as babies, but now he is much smaller. Lately, I've noticed that he is starting to walk slowly and can't climb as well. He also had lots of dead skin building up on his front legs. I was able to get most of the skin off, and he can use his legs, but he is still moving slow. Something is wrong with him and I can't figure out what!

The other 2 skinks look healthy except that they seem to be constantly shedding (in pieces). I don't think its normal for them to be shedding all the time. I read somewhere that it could be MBD (from lack of Calcium), but the sand that they dig in is Vita-Sand, which is supposed to supply them with calcium. Is Vita-Sand safe or should I replace it with something else? Should I give the lizards other sources of Calcium (such as dust or drops for water)?

A few other things to note is that the 2 bigger skinks seem to run around a lot and press their heads against the glass (like they are trying to escape). This seems like stress to me, but I can't think of anything they don't have! Their cage is big (30 inches long, 13 inches wide, and 13 inches tall), and they have lots and lots of hiding places. I've also noticed that my skinks all spend abnormal amounts of time basking under the heat lamp. The basking area stays around 80 degrees while the other side of the cage is around 70. I also have a fluorescent light bulb to give them UVB lighting, but it is old and I just read somewhere that old fluorescent lights stop giving out UVB rays.

Can anyone think of any reasons why the 2 big skinks are stressed and why the small skink is having trouble moving and climbing? Anything anyone says will be of help, even if they don't know much about Western Skinks specifically.

I would get them off the vita sand. Most of these calcium carbonate substrates contain particles that are too large to be easily dissolved in the stomach. If ingested in excess, they can even clump together causing an impaction. Constantly ingesting calcium from the substrate in this manner is also like constantly taking antacids, so the stomach may not work properly. I've housed westerns on things like repti-bark and bed-a-beast, and they do seem to benefit from the higher humidity you can obtain with these substratees and regular misting (low humidity may cause some of the shed problems).

For calcium and vitamins, I would switch to a high quality supplement like Rep-cal with Vitamin D3 and Herptivite. Also make sure that you gutload your feeders (feed them something nutritious) for several hours before offering them to your lizards. With calcium supplements, it is also important to select one without phospherus (calcium phosphate etc.) Insectivores and carnivores obtain plenty of phospherus from their animal prey, but not enough calcium. In order to metabolize calcium, they need a 2:1 ratio of calcium to phospherus so it is important to have a supplement that does not contain phospherus if you want to correct the imbalance (supplements containing phospherus are meant for herbivores).

UV lights typically only emit UV for 6 - 12 months. At the minimum, you should replace your light yearly. Zoomed's Repti-sun bulbs have the best reputation.

From the description of your skinks symptoms and behavior, it sounds like they are suffering from a combination of stress, lack of humitity and calcium deficiency. Changeing the sustrate and supplements should help a lot. Make sure you also have lots of hiding places so that all the skinks can get away from each other. Westerns can be very aggressive towards one another, especially the males. It is possible your juvi could be a younger male who is being attacked by one of the larger skinks. Right now, a lot of mature males are starting to develop red chins, but I don't know if animals that haven't been cycled will develop these.

I've also noticed that these guys really like to drink the drops of water produced when you mist them. Misting will help keep them well hydrated, and raise the humidity which should help guard against stuck sheds.

Hope this helps,
Alice

What would you recommend that I do to increase the humidity in the cage? Would I have to purchase anything? If so, what do you recommend?

I will start dusting the crickets with non-prosperous calcium dust and drop Reptisafe in their waterish. I will also buy a new fluorescent light just incase. Are there any bulbs that I can put in my heat lamp that release UVB rays as well as UVA, or do I have to buy another fluorescent?

Thanks for the quick response!

One more question. Would a substrate like this be good for my Western Skinks?
http://www.exoticlizards.com/jungle-earth.html
I would hate to deprive my skinks of a substrate that they can dig in. They dig all the time and spend most nights under rocks and decorations. Without sand, they have hardly any hiding spots anymore.

By the way, the type of skink I have is the "Eumeces skiltonianus".
http://www.wildherps.com/species/E.skiltonianus.html
Is that what you had as well Aliceinwl, or did you have a Western BTS? Either way, I still have to follow the same similar rules for taking care of mine.

I've got Eumeces skiltonianus.

I'm not sure about the substrate you posted, but a compressed cocconut substrate like bed-a-beast would be ideal (there are a few other brands I seen: Zoo-med eco-earth, T-rex Forest Bed) all work equally well.

They come in bricks, and when you add water, they expand into a nice moist substrate that is great for digging and holds burrow structure well. You can check with Scales and see if their product is the same type of stuff. To maintain moisture periodically mist the substrate.

There are other types of bulbs you can get that emit UV and heat (mercury vapor bulbs) but, they are expensive and I think that they would produce too much heat (I use one for my chuckwallas who are in a 100 gallon to get their basking site up to 120 ). I think that you would be fine with a regular basking bulb and a new flourescent.

-Alice

I don't add any vitamins to the water. It is possible to overdo it with vitamins and I've never had any problems just supplementing the food.
-Alice

Should I spray water in the cage about 2 times a day or so? I think I will use those Reptisafe drops in the water just for now (along with dust on crickets), since my skinks probably have a lack of calcium. After a few weeks, I will just stick with dusting the crickets. Does this sound ok?

I went out today and bought some new stuff that I think will work well for my Skinks. One of the guys at the pet store I went to recommended the ESU Jungle Mix for the substrate, so that is what I bought. I also bought a 20-Watt Super UV Coil-Lamp, which is now the source of UVB for my lizards. I left the fluorescent hood on top off the cage as well, since the cage is big and looks dark without it. I figure that with the new UV coil lamp, it shouldn't matter if the old fluorescent light no longer gives off UVB.

Here is a picture I took of my new cage setup:

Here is a close-up of the new substrate:

And here are my skinks basking under the heat lamp and the new UV coil:

Is there anything that I'm missing?

It looks good. Spraying twice daily should be fine. If the substrate feels pretty dry to the touch, you may want to pour some water in it. The water will gradually evaporate, but the areas under things like hides and the water dish will remain moist. This will give the skinks a choice of moist and dry retreats. I'm not sure what your dimensions are, but you want the UV light to be within a foot of the lizards, the closer the better.

One tip for a good gutload: at least in CA chopped cactus pads are available in most of the Albertsons. They are high in calcium and mealworms and crickets love them. I usually feed my crix cactus pad and oranges for moisture along with crushed dog food and fish flakes. I use the above with my mealworms too along with oats and bran flakes.

Your skinks look nice and fat, hopefully they make a speedy recovery.

-Alice

My cage is about 30 inches long and 12 inches wide/tall. Right now, my Skinks' basking spot is around 8-9 inches away from the tip of the Fluorescent UV coil.

I never knew you could gut load mealworms! I always just figured they would eat no more than the stuff they come in. I always gut load my crickets, but never my mealworms... I will have to try that.

Thanks for all your help! I'm glad someone else who happens to have Western skinks found my post. Just out of curiosity, what part of CA do you live in? I'm in central California, in the Monterey County. I caught my Western Skinks as babies around here while hiking about a year ago. They have been nice and healthy up until recently. They should recover and become healthy again now that I have tweaked their cage and diet.

I'm glad I could help, and I hope your skinks recover quickly. I'm in central California too. I'm a bit south of you in northern Santa Barabara county.
-Alice

have you ever looked into http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=6495&N=2006 113531

I used this and like it. I now "make" my own substrate for my skinks (5 lined) . I use no chemical,fertilizer,etc virgin organic soil a big bag is cheaper than all the pre
-packaged reptile litters. I buy it from Home depot and mix 1/4 cacium sand in it . Garden stores,home depot,etc sell the same many of the same substrates you buy for reptiles way cheaper for way more. large bags of orchid mix are great to they are a lot like jungle mix.
The stuff Alice uses you cant buy in garden stores so stuff like that if you prefer it than you have to get it from reptile places and its cheap enough anyway.
My skinks are still small how do yours get a long?
I read as they get older they will fight but so far mine are good. I keep ocellated skinks to seperately ofcourse in just pure sand no soil added. They hide way more tho than my 5 lineds.
My ocellateds are a pair my 5 lines I have no idea both bask but the 5 lines are not as skittish .