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I've had my pair of W.C. satanics for 2 days now.

The female seemed to be dehydrated when she came in as her tail was 'folded' up. I observed her moving about her tank quite actively last night. Good sign I suppose. Looked as if she was hunting (head hanging towards tank bottom).

The first night I had them, I put them in their own 5.5 gal tanks. I had placed coco fiber & orchid bark in the tanks as substrate. Then I realized the next morning it would be really tough to find the lobster roaches I've offered in the substrate to see if they had been eating (roaches don't stay in a cup as well as crickets do). So yesterday, I switched to crumpled pieces of paper bag & pothos vines.

I placed 3 small roaches in each one's tank last night. Didn't have time to check to see if any had been eaten this morning (had to get to work). Will check this afternoon & give a report here.

I've been misting the tanks quite thoroughly. I've placed hard pieces of plastic over half of the top of each tank to keep the humidity up.

Questions I have:

1.) How much misting is 'too much?' I mist in the mornings somewhat heavily (7 am), when I get home from work (4 pm), several times in the evening & before I go to sleep. I've been doing it where the water doesn't really collect at the bottom of the tank, but where the glass & paper bag/pothos leaves stay fairly wet most of the time. Was wondering if I'm over doing it?

2.) The stool of each satanic is not runny & looks normal from what I can tell. The supplier had treated them w/ panacur before they had been shipped to me. Should I be concerned w/ bringing them to a vet? I've called around & all vets around here want ~$50 ea. just to look @ them. Then they want more for a fecal exam... whew. None will supply panacur w/o the exam. Was wondering if I should try to buy some panacur off the net somewhere & treat them myself w/o the exam? Or, if they're not having 'problems,' should I just not worry about it? Or, should I fork out the $150 somethin that I'll end up paying @ the vet? Maybe I could take that $ & buy a microscope instead!

3.) How long should I acclimate them for in seperate enclosures if I they show no health problems?

4.) Is the paper bag pieces & pothos vines a sufficient medium to keep the geckos on till acclimated? Seems sanitary too me. Easy to monitor food & droppings that way. Paper towels seemed like they would be too bright & stress my little buddies out.

Any help/comments/advice/tips is more than appreciated.

~Ben G.

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1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.0 Uroplatus Phantasticus
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1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.0 Uroplatus Phantasticus

The humidity level is one of those issues that can end up taking up too much of our attention. A "light" misting twice a day would be sufficient. I try to spray the gex directly both times, and every other day or two I spray the substrate thouroughly. One of the more important parts of the acclimation process NOT stressing the animal. I found that my phants did better when placed in an already established, natural vivaria. By providing them w/ plenty of hiding areas, food, and water, they'll be fine. I wouldn't worry too much about the parasites until you've had them for 30-60days. Remember, parasites DON'T WANT TO KILL THE HOST, if they do, then they die as well. As long as they (gex) are provided ample nourishment they'll be fine. Of course, remove all fecal matter as soon as it's observed. As most everyone on this forum will tell you; even the healthiest gex will come down s/ SUDS (Sudden Uroplatus Death Syndrome), not a valid scientific term, but fitting. Follow good, hygenic husbandry practices, and your phants will become very rewarding pets.

Hrmm... SUDS doesn't sound good at all.

Thanks for the advice.

How often does this happen? (1 in 10, 100, 1000...) Just curious.. that kinda scares me..

I've got a nice 20 gal. tall vivarium that I built for the satanics... as far as keeping them in 5.5 gal seperately, I was just concerned about monitoring they're feeding mainly.

Would be a little harder for me to tell how've they've been doing in the planted vivarium. Also easier to check to see if their stool is runny or just if they're excreting waste at all.

As far as the parasites are concerned, I suppose your right about letting them get acclimated & comfortable before I stick more chemicals down their little throats.

I'm thinking if I get home tonight, & hopefully both have eaten, I might move them both to the vivarium. Then in a month or so, maybe treat them w/ panacur & completely start over w/ the vivarium to clean it of all bugs.

Sound good?
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1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.0 Uroplatus Phantasticus

well, take note that SUDS isnt a real term, just a term he just made up, but yea, its fitting of the circumstances. i have had many satanics over the past year and a half, and only one died suddenly and unexpectedly, however i attribute it to the fact that she may have been stressed from egg laying (died a day or two after laying an egg). reproduction is probably one of the biggest long-term stresses in these guys, although improper handling could probably cause the greatest short-term stress. treating your animals for parasites is also an added stress on their systems, which is one of the main reasons why you should wait to have them treated. if you arent experienced in administering proper dosages at minute amounts to your animals, i would leave it to the vet. he should be able to pinpoint the types of internal parasites your animals are carrying as well as offer the correct route for deparasitization (panacur, flagyl, parazap, ivermectin).

as for the acclimation of your animals, the more i have tried it, the more i have noticed that a hands off approach works. just mist them twice a day, monitor the humidity, and provide them with plenty of climbing material and hiding spots. not totally sure if your crumpled paper bad and pothos vines are the best, although it should provide adequate cover. try gathering some branches/twigs for them to climb on as well, and if you have some cork bark throw a slab of that in. they're very fond of ficus, probably for the reason the leaves look just like their tails, so i would say run out to a local hardware store and pick up a small ficus tree. then just make sure they dont get too hot, and they should pep up nice and well.

note: the position you noticed your female in doesnt necessarily mean shes in feeding mode. they actually become quite active (relatively speaking) when they're hunting. mine often drape themselves over a branch or vine as they sleep.
also be sure that the tail on your female was folding (inwards from the sides toward the middle), and not just curling (the hind tip curled into a spiral). my first female actually concerned me for a good while because her tail actually curled upward very slightly along the sides, and i thought that this may have been slight dehydration, when in fact she was in rather good health.

hope i hit all the points and hope it helps!

Thanks for the response.

As far as the female's tail goes... the sides of the tail, near the base of the tail, had folded inwards on top of the tail. While the sides of the tail, near the end of her tail, have folded inwards underneath the tail.

Kinda strange looking. I figure it's not a 'normal' thing. Hopefully it will not be an issue. The sides of the tail, near the base, have already began to unfold quite a bit. The end of the tail is still folded under though. Although, it's 1:47 pm, I haven't been home since 7 am... so hopefully, she's doing even better.
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1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.0 Uroplatus Phantasticus

well it doesnt sound too severe in your case, so what i would recommend you do with her when you get a chance is the same thing that was recommended to me by ben, leah, and others...get a few broad-leaved plants in a pot, and even a ficus if you have a spare (but lots of pothos should work). just make sure there is plenty of cover for them, cuz its bout to start raining! you can either put them in the actual shower and use that water source if your spray is softer and finer, or just put them in the shower and just use whatever you use to spray them. i have one of those pump bottles, so i pump it up and just give them a continuous spray. its a bit more tiresome that way. others recommended using water that is barely warm to the touch. be sure to let your water run for a while if you do it from the shower so you know the temp is constant! just do that for 20 minutes if you can bear it, then do it again sometime the next day. should be pepped up in about a week if all works out well.

Yesterday, day 2 of having the phants, I placed them both in the naturalistic vivarium as recommended. They seemed to be much happier last night as they both moved about the 20 gal. tank enslosure for quite a while.

When they eventually met up, they stopped & stared @ eachother for a good hour. Was kinda funny, hope they weren't too freaked out. Then they kept moving about.

I observed the male eating. He's aggressive. Was very happy to see this. I didn't not observe the female eating. Hopefully she did. I put several small roaches in the enclosure @ dusk.

The base of the females tail looks like it 'should'. The end of the tail is still folded underneath. I also notice something that looks stuck under the flaps of folded tail. It looks white, as if it could be the white part of gecko droppings (is this calcium?).

Is this a serious issue? Should I be concerned about trying to get it out somehow? How easily do Satanics loose their tails? Was thinking I could try to get a toothpick to force it out. But, she is so small & fragile, I'm worried I will hurt her, or freak her out really bad. Should I just shower the living crap out of her?

Help is appreciated.
~Ben G.
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1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.0 Uroplatus Phantasticus

if the white stuff you see under her tail is actually the white part of the poop (uric acid, not calcium), then yea it would be best to try to clean that off. lizard poop is practically the same as bird poo, and uric acid isnt very water soluble, so it might take some soaking to get that off. if you try the shower idea out, hopefully that will get it wet enough to loosen up a lil, but uric acid is what makes it so hard to clean bird poop off your car. i would try something like a q-tip instead of a toothpick so you can try to wipe it off instead of taking a chance poking her.

as for tail dropping, i dont think they "drop it easily." you can never tell whats going thru your pet's mind though. i had a male phant get his knee up through and stuck in the screen once, actually jammed good enough to the point i had to cut him out. he was obviously writhing in pain as i tried to help him out, and i thought for sure that he would drop his tail. luckily for us both, he toughed it out and healed up real quick. i would think thought that the higher the stress factor, the higher the likelihood of autotomy.

Ho ho ho...SUDS, that must of been what killed my male Henkeli a few years ago... thanks for giving this evil thing a name.

Best regards

Michael Jonasson

Good luck with Your Phant´s