Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can anyone recommend a good sealer for pine? I'm building a new cage for my Ball Python and need to seal it. Thanks in advance.

Ses01

what look are you going for? painted or stained? I'd probably do painted, and in that case i'd go to home depot and get some behr interior primer (quart should be enough) then some behr interior satin enamel paint. 2 coats of this to seal it good.

Once you get it painted, then let it outgas for about 2-4 weeks. at this point it should be safe for your snakes to live in.
-----
-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

Thanks for the help. Is there anything that can out gas quicker than that? Just curious. I'm not too worried about what the actual cage looks like, I just want it to be safe for the little guy.

Ses01

That's a good question Ses. I was going to ask the same thing. The Burmese cage I'm working on will need to be sealed I think. I was planning on just having plywood cut for the top doors on the cage. Would these also have to be sealed or is there a different type of wood I could use that would not have to be sealed for the whole cage? Please let me know.

Thanks.

Circusfan

>>I was planning on just having plywood cut for the top doors on the cage. Would these also have to be sealed or is there a different type of wood I could use that would not have to be sealed for the whole cage? Please let me know.

A plywood top does need to be sealed. It will absorb odors and be hard to clean otherwise.

For the top of the cage you could get away with melamine coalted particle board. I am not a fan of this material for the bottom of cages, especially burmese pythons. It is okay for the sides, but far from my first choice.

I'll make a general post on sealers in another post.
-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Thanks for the advice. Here's another quick question. What if I used Hardwood for the top doors? Would they also need to be sealed? Here's the basic layout of what I'm building. I bought a very large glass aquarium tank and I am building a frame out of wood to go around the tank and for supports underneath it. I plan on hinging two doors at the top of the cage. The way it seems so far, with the wood frame on the outside of the tank, that should not have to be sealed. Is this correct? I was thinking only the top doors would have to be. Please let me know if this sounds right.

Thanks.

Circusfan

>>The way it seems so far, with the wood frame on the outside of the tank, that should not have to be sealed. Is this correct? I was thinking only the top doors would have to be.

I would only seal the portions of the wood that the snake could come in contact with or that are exposed to the odors of the cage.

So only the underside of the doors from what you have described.
-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Thanks for the help!

Circusfan

I prefer oil based polyurethanes, although many on this forum would'nt agree with me.
I just feel they stand up to the harsh enviornments we create within our enclosures better.
I especially prefer a brand called Helsmnan Spar Urethane.I believe Min Wax makes it.
It is perfect for a high humidity enviornment.
Epoxy finishes are even better, though hard to work with .
The downside to these products...long off-gas time.
And long layups for repairs because of off gassing.

oh heck id agree the oil based poly and especially the spar urethane... that would be my first choice if outgassing time wasn't a consideration. The only reason I chose not to use it myself is because I was in somewhat of a rush to get my cages completed, and I just couldn't wait that long.
-----
-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

The last time I priced spar urethane it was barely cheaper than Envirotex Epoxy. I'm more than willing to pay a bit extra for the Envirotex for the minimal offgassing alone.

However, spar uretanes might have much better coverage given how thick the Envirotex needs to be applied. So a price comparison on a per-volume basis may not be appropriate here.

Crtoon, do you know? A gallon of Envirotex covers about 32 sq. ft. or one full sheet of plywood. Do you know how far a gallon of Helmsman will go?
-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I just googled it and it suggest 125 sq. ft. per quart, or 500 sq. ft. per gallon.

At first glance that appears to be considerable more than the Envirotex but I imagine when you factor in how many coats of spar would be needed the differences are not as extreme. Still, spar urethane should cover a lot more material so my price comparison is not valid.

I have always wondered about the semi-flexible nature of spar and whether or not those oils will continue to offgas over time. I don't believe I have ever used it in a reptile cage. I have used it for other projects and it really takes ages to stop smelling.
-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

on three coats i think it will do like 50 sf or something? i'll check when i go in to work tomorrow.
-----
-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
N. American Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote
Information on substrates

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
0.1 Texas Bairdi (Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Monty)

>>Can anyone recommend a good sealer for pine? I'm building a new cage for my Ball Python and need to seal it. Thanks in advance.

For a ball python:

For a solid color a latex or acrylic enamel will be fine but consider a plastic floor. I have never let them offgas for 2 weeks and don't know of any problems.

For a clear coat I would use an oil-based poly but then you can have an extensive offgass time.

For a clear coat that will offgas quickly use Envirotex Epoxy. It's very expensive.

For a Burmese:

Definitely use a plastic floor. For the sides/top I would bump up to an oil-based product, whether it be a paint or clear coat. Even then Burmese urates will probably require a yearly touch up to the sides. A spar urethane maybe won't require frequent touch ups but it takes a very long time to offgas.

For a plastic floor:

FRP, shower board, or expanded PVC are all good choices. These can be laminated over the wooden floor or the cage can be built with no floor at all and these materials can be stapled directly the bottom rim of the cage.
-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

IMHO Spar urethane is unnecessary, while it does have great abilities in humid, even wet applications, the significant off gassing times and possible long term off gassing even when fully cured may not be good for your herps.

I've used oil based poly urethane in so many wet applications without problems for years. Floors, kitchen and bathroom counters as well as numerous reptile enclosures. Your herp enclosures are certainly not going to get the regular wear and tear that a floor would have and I have had poly last for years with just 3 good coats. Off gassing time is minimal compared to some of the other materials mentioned and application is about as easy as it can get.

For an initial sealer coat on pine I would recommend a 50/50 mix with thinner to penetrate deeper into the grain. A light sanding and follow up with three coats of straight poly. I would suggest doing all surfaces for ease of maintanence. I would agree with Chris on the Burm enclosure for floor coverings like vinyl. You might even consider a 6" band around the walls once the floor is in.

If you're really that concerned with wearability then get gym floor finish poly but even that is overkill.

The two oldest enclosures I've made are a Burm enclosure that's 8 years old and a Monkey Tailed Skink one that's 6 years old. Of the two the Burm enclosure shows a little discoloration on the floor from urates but the finish is still in very good shape. The skink enclosure still looks new.

Why try to build a better mousetrap when the old one works fine?
-----
Hope this helps.

BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.

>>Why try to build a better mousetrap when the old one works fine?

LOL, probably because some of us, myself included, have been too aggressive with oil-based poly and put on a too thick first coat. That spells disaster with oil based poly and biases our opinions of it.

>>For an initial sealer coat on pine I would recommend a 50/50 mix with thinner to penetrate deeper into the grain.

Now that's a good idea. One thing I tried once was two coats of water based poly followed by two coats of oil based poly. I was trying to accomplish the same thing but also save money and reduce offgassing and working time.

>>IMHO Spar urethane is unnecessary... possible long term off gassing even when fully cured may not be good for your herps.

Thanks for the input on that. That's exactly why I've always avoided it in applications for my herps or my fiances orchids. The semi-flexible solids in Spar have always worried me.

>>If you're really that concerned with wearability then get gym floor finish poly but even that is overkill.

How is it overkill when it costs the same, at least when purchased by the gallon. Maybe I'm wrong. Is it harder to work with or something?

>>The two oldest enclosures I've made are a Burm enclosure that's 8 years old and a Monkey Tailed Skink one that's 6 years old.

So these were sealed with just "regular" oil-based poly?

Thanks BigT, always felt you were the man when it came to finishing wood.
-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Chris

The gym floor finish has a longer open time and takes longer to cure. I'm not sure about long term outgassing with it though.

Yes the two enclosures were done with MinWax Polyurethane.

BigT
-----
Hope this helps.

BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.

I am building a Monkey Tailed Skink cage now. And for the finish I am using the gym floor type urethane. Great wear resistance, and as Chris mentioned...same price.
And I agreee with BigT...oil based poly works for many applications. And resists moisture extrememly well. Before I carpet a boat floor, I coat it heavily with oil based Polyurethane. I never had to replace a floor in less than 5 years.I did however, dry the wood for a long time.
If polyurethane is done right, you should get a glass like finish. Instead of 3 coats though, I use 5. Sanding between the coats. The finish rivals epoxy.
And again in agreement with BigT...50/50 mix on thinner and poly for the first sealer coat.
That creates a good finish to begin sanding.
But I still do like spar poly's too...but prefer oil based poly.