Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all,

I hope some of you remember my last post concerning Ziazan's slowness in defecating. Well, I came home from a two-day trip out of town to a pretty nerve-wracking situation. Here's a summary of her feeding schedule to start, just to give some background:

Feb. 15: First meal, four pinkies. Didn't defecate all week long, lump still noticeable after a week.

Feb 22: Second meal, four pinkies. Still hadn't defecated, and was told not to feed again until she does.

On the 23rd I had to leave for a two-day trip out of town. I expected she would be just fine (people don't seem to worry about leaving their snakes unattended for a day or two), and misted her cage thoroughly right before leaving, to keep the humidity in her ideal 80% range while I was gone (the cage top has a glass lid covering all of the top, and based on my monitoring while at home, it should have held humidity for about two days before I needed to mist).

When I came home today (the 25th), I was shocked to see that the humidity had dropped drastically, to 52%! I reached in to pick Zia up for an emergency bath to rehydrate, and I was sure she was near-dead... she seemed very stiff, and hardly moving at all.

Most disturbing, I noticed that her belly was still extremely swollen from her last meal, and there was a dark bluish/purplish discoloration on the swollen area. The swollen area seems lumpy and soft, and this worries me considerably. There are also patches of bluish discoloration randomly across her belly and lower sides, and her entire belly has taken on a kind of pinkish hue.

I wondered if it was constipation or impaction, so I proceeded to soak her in a warm bath for about 25 minutes. During this time I cleaned her cage thoroughly and found two small clumps of white urates, probably passed from her first meal. However, I didn't find any dark fecal matter along with it. I checked the cage before I left for my trip, so she must have passed the urates while I was away.

In any case, the bath seemed to perk her up considerably, and her activity level rose close to normal very quickly, with a fair amount of tongue-flicking. She also drank generously from the water while she was soaking. I'm pretty sure she may have been dehydrated from the unexpected drop in humidity - could that also explain the supposed constipation?

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow morning, and if he recommends it, I'll take her for a visit right away. In the meantime, any advice or suggestions are appreciated.

In any case, the whole situation embarrasses me terribly, and I'm ashamed to even post it here. But I'm hoping someone might be able to help me learn what went wrong. I'm really confused why the humidity dropped so quickly as well, since it had always held up easily for a few days between mistings. I'm purchasing an automatic mister on a timer before I leave on my next trip as a precaution.
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::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.1 WC Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides blue Peru)
3.3 Pygmy corydoras (C. pygmaeus)
2.0 Endlers' Livebearers (P. sp. Endlers)

im sorry to hear about zia, i dont have any advice but i would like to say dont be embarrased for speaking up because your question is very valid, and ud feel even worse if u didnt say ne thing and Zia died.

Thanks for the encouragement, I appreciate it.

I'm really beating myself up over this one - she is my first and only snake, and I'm quite attached to her. I feel horribly guilty that I left her unattended during my trip. Perhaps I got in over my head after all, starting with a traditionally difficult snake like a BRB.

Still, there's always the slight chance that things are not as serious as they seem. Thank goodness for a nearby vet! Any and all advice/theories, no matter how likely, are appreciated.
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::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.1 WC Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides blue Peru)
3.3 Pygmy corydoras (C. pygmaeus)
2.0 Endlers' Livebearers (P. sp. Endlers)

Nekomi,
...This is a PIC taken tonight of a 2004 BRB that is opaque getting ready to shed. They get this dull bluish cast over their skin before shedding. Sometimes they get a pinkish color on their bellies before shedding. A little pinkish is okay. Lots of pinkish can be caused by substrate that is too hot or too acidic or basic. The one thing in your post that worries me is the description of the lump as soft and lumpy and causing a blue mark on the belly. Can you move the lump and blue spot by gently squeezing it along for an inch or so? This could be normal soft stool about ready to be passed or it could be something else. Try letting the snake swim and that may help it to move the lump along and pass it. If you could post a PIC that would help. Don't worry too much about the humidity. If the humidity was in the high 80s two days ago and is only down to 52 today then it declined slowly. They can stand a day or two of lower humidity. Rather than the expense of an automatic mister just pour water on the substrate before you leave for a few days. Many times my little BRBs do not get their plastic shoebox cages opened for a week and they do fine with the water from their water bowls that gets spilled on their papertowel substrate.
Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for replying. I'm glad to hear that the humidity isn't as crucial as I thought!

I don't believe she is getting ready to shed - I've seen several opaque BRB's before and Zia doesn't look the same. The blue spots are patches of discoloration mostly along the belly and very random. The pinkish color, however, may mean that she will be going into opaque soon. The pink is quite uniform. But I'll also keep your suggestions about the substrate in mind.

I reached in this morning to take her out for a swim like you suggested, and found that she defecated overnight. Both dark feces and urates this time. They looked completely normal (dark and firm, right?), so that helps to rule out any intestinal parasites. She seems much better off since she defecated... she's much more active and more alert. Also, the lump is much less visible and no longer seems swollen, although a slight blue discoloration (less than before) is still noticeable. In addition, the lump is no longer soft, now it feels firm and uniformly rounded like the rest of her body. In fact, it's less of a lump now and more of a gradual widening. I think she still has some feces to pass.

I gave her a 20 minute swim and some exercise outside of her cage, and I'm hoping that will do the trick. Incidentally, I lowered the thermostat probe under the substrate last night so it would touch the glass above the UTH. Temperatures dropped to 76 on the hot side after I did that, and Zia started spending a lot more time close to the hot side. Maybe the substrate temps near the UTH were too warm for her after all.

Here are two pics of the lump and discoloration as it looks presently. I circled the area to make it easier to find. As you can see, it seems to have gone down considerably since she defecated last night. The discoloration is now very slight, but still visible.

-----
::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.1 WC Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides blue Peru)
3.3 Pygmy corydoras (C. pygmaeus)
2.0 Endlers' Livebearers (P. sp. Endlers)

Someone on the Herp Health forum mentioned that the condition could have been caused by the food rotting instead of digesting properly. Jeff, do you think this is the case?

Also, do you think I should still call the vet today for an immediate appointment? I already have a general checkup that I had scheduled for March 3.
-----
::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.1 WC Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides blue Peru)
3.3 Pygmy corydoras (C. pygmaeus)
2.0 Endlers' Livebearers (P. sp. Endlers)

Nekomi,
My first thought when reading your initial post was gut rot due to the food rotting in the belly from too cool of temperatures. However, when you stated your BRB passed a healthy looking poop after the swimming excersize I was'nt so sure. Looking at your BRB pics the belly color just looks much too pink (BRB's should almost always have a beautiful white belly) and the swollen portion would be a concern for me. If it was me I'd have that snake taken to a vet ASAP. When you got home from the trip the BRB should'nt have been so stiff from low humidities. My gut feeling is that something could be wrong. The swollenness on your size snake could not be caused by mice pinkies.
See what the vet says (hoping you have access to a vet that knows something about snakes), if nothing else you'll buy yourself some piece of mind.
Really hope everything is OK,
Paul
P.S. I admire you for posting your situation. Everyone learns from these type of things. You seem like the diligent type and I think your little friend will benefit from your efforts.

Paul,

Thanks for replying, I appreciate it. Thanks also for the kind PS.

The vet is already closed for the weekend, so I will call first thing Monday morning.

I'm concerned about the overall heating situation in the cage. The substrate is warm above the UTH, but just inches away, it's cold. I've never seen her lay on the UTH, even after a meal - and I don't think that the glass above the UTH is too warm, either.

My hunch is that she didn't digest properly because she spent all her time laying in the cold substrate. Do you think this makes sense? Maybe I should switch to an overhead heating system that would warm the cage more evenly.

Temps in the cage have been 79-73 pretty consistently, sometimes 1-2 degrees warmer. I let the temps drop to 76 on the hot side after moving the thermostat probe under the substrate. She seems to be spending more time closer to the hot side now.
-----
::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.1 WC Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides blue Peru)
3.3 Pygmy corydoras (C. pygmaeus)
2.0 Endlers' Livebearers (P. sp. Endlers)

Nekomi,
It could be possible that the snake was lightly burned by lying on the glass bottom over the UTH; this would explain the uniform reddish color of the belly. This is not an uncommon experience with using UTH's without a dimmer. Your right, it could have been way too hot directly above the UTH and cool immediatly above. If your snake did get burned this would explain why it was spending all its time on the cool side, recovering. Young BRB's are eating machines and even one with a light burn could continue to eat and maybe not be able to digest the food if the temps were too cool (by the way, what is the temp in the room the enclosure is in?). If your snake was burned slightly it will heal fully if you get the conditions right in its enclosure. Usually it would go through a fairly rapid shed cycle or two if it was hurt. After a couple of sheds the belly should look pearly white and the snake fully recovered.
Anyway, just a possibility. Maybe with the adjusted temps your little charge may be on its way and good to go.
Paul

Room temperature is about 73, she's kept in my bedroom.

As far as burns go, what would that look like? I handle her and have her out for exercise often (every other day or so) and never noticed anything strange until I returned home from my trip. It's possible that she could have been burned while I was away, but she's spent all her time on the cool side ever since I got her.

I'm hoping that adjusting the temps will do the trick also. I'm going to continue giving her warm water baths/swims until the vet appointment, just in case it is still a defecation issue.

I noticed one other thing when I had her out earlier. There is a pinpoint spot (maybe 3-5 scales wide) that looks much darker than the rest of the discoloration. It appears bruised. Is this another possibility?
-----
::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.1 WC Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides blue Peru)
3.3 Pygmy corydoras (C. pygmaeus)
2.0 Endlers' Livebearers (P. sp. Endlers)

I found a mite on Zia while having her out briefly about 20 minutes ago. Surprised I didn't find any sooner, since I checked her water bowl for drowned mites every time I changed it. I'm starting to doubt the reputation of the breeder I purchased her from... I don't know how else she could have gotten mites, since I have no other snakes and I'm pretty sure that Bed-a-beast substrate is clean (it's vaccum-packed and comes as a hard brick).

Thankfully I had a can of Provent-a-Mite on hand as a precaution, so I used that while I kept her out of her cage until the stuff dried.

I don't think the mites could have anything to do with her condition, correct?

I'm so frustrated. I've been doing everything by-the-book and watching her like a hawk since the day I got her, but it seems that my snake-keeping experience is doomed to failure.
-----
::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.1 WC Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides blue Peru)
3.3 Pygmy corydoras (C. pygmaeus)
2.0 Endlers' Livebearers (P. sp. Endlers)

Hi,

Obviously, Jeff is the expert here and you should take his advice. I just wanted to concur that my BRB has also dealt with a day or two of low humidity without a problem at all.

However, if humidity is a problem for you, here's how I handle it - my setup, which maintains a "rainforest" atmosphere unless I forget to refill the water bowl is as follows:

A standard aquarium (20L, but i need to go bigger soon)
A center-hinged screen top - 90% of which is covered with plastic. A small under-tank heating pad (less than 1/4 of the floor)which the water bowl sits directly on top of.

Here's a pic, you can see the moisture.

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- John

1.0 Baird's Rat (Milton)
1.0 Okeetee Corn (Edgar)
0.1 Ball Python (Agatha)
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Rudyard)

Actually, that's almost the same setup I have. I'm using a 29 gallon aquarium with a hinged glass lid that covers the entire top. I have a UTH with the water bowl above it. Humidity is normally not a problem for me, so I was surprised to come home and see the low reading.

Thanks for replying!
-----
::i believe in joy > http://www.winds.org/nekomi/hope.html

::my homepage > http://www.winds.org/nekomi

My Growing Zoo:

1.0 Husband (Byron) ^_^
0.1 black cat (Shade)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Zia)
1.2 Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides yellow-gold)
1.1 WC Cockatoo cichlids (A. cacatuoides blue Peru)
3.3 Pygmy corydoras (C. pygmaeus)
2.0 Endlers' Livebearers (P. sp. Endlers)