Reptile & Amphibian Forums

so...
I have had the indigo bug, probably for about 7 years, but haven't done anything about it yet. i have been successful with kings and then with pines. thus... i've done my research so with any luck 2006 will be the year i shave my head and fill out the paper work. my questions are...

-does anyone know approximately how many indigo hatchlings are produced each season?
-are bloodlines monitored by any/many breeders in order to prevent excessive inbreeding?
- this may be a loaded question but it is related to the previous- at this point, can any captive bred populations be traced back to legal wild caught adults such as a long term colony prior to protection?
thanks much,
dave

Save your hair; there's a few of us who still have some Once you start working with indigos you'll wonder why you didn't do it years ago; you'll really enjoy working with them. You asked some great questions; questions that many of us who have quite a bit of experience still cannot fully answer. It is extremely difficult to trace many of the available lineages back to wild caught adults. Chuck Elliott may be able to help out as he started working with them long before many of us. I do try my best to make sure I am working with as a genetically varied colony as possible; but, once again, we can only guess at times. Although I would NEVER advocate the taking of wild indigos, it sure would be nice to obtain a group of w/c adults, with the proper permission from the various commissions, to allow certain private individuals to work with them....but, I don't see that happening any time soon.

I would like to hear what others have to say about this.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

>>so...
>>I have had the indigo bug, probably for about 7 years, but haven't done anything about it yet. i have been successful with kings and then with pines. thus... i've done my research so with any luck 2006 will be the year i shave my head and fill out the paper work. my questions are...
>>
>>-does anyone know approximately how many indigo hatchlings are produced each season?
>>-are bloodlines monitored by any/many breeders in order to prevent excessive inbreeding?
>>- this may be a loaded question but it is related to the previous- at this point, can any captive bred populations be traced back to legal wild caught adults such as a long term colony prior to protection?
>>thanks much,
>>dave
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

It is truly difficult to ascertain accurately the numbers of Eastern Indigos that result from captive reproduction. The sucess is so inconsistant as to be hard to track, plus, where there used to be 10-12 breeders that consistantly produced easterns, there are more new people trying their hand at it with varying results.

I was able to discern two separate bloodines in my group, represented by two males and two females apiece. I could trace their parents roots to legal w/c stock from Florida. The REST of my easterns were a complete toss up as far as long term lineage.

I agree with Rob, if wild bloodlines could be incorporated into existing captive collections of easterns, it would diversify the gene pool and strengthen the captive population. But, this. as Rob pointed out, is a highly unlikely prospect for the future.

If you have kept PITOUPHIS, in my opinion you can keep Drymarchon, they are both incredibly messy snakes and exhibit "intelligent behaviour" I think that you will be glad that you took the time out to keep them. Welcome aboard. We are glad that you are here.No question is a dumb question. Except about makeing hashbrowns. (Please see eggs benedict post)

Sincerly,

Fredrick Albury

I could introduce you to my Uncle Ed, very skilled with preparing eggs Benedict and hash browns, any way you want 'em.

-Love my pits.

Dave

Dave,

Those were some great questions. You know that I am a big locality nut! That being said, locality indigos are basically non-existant. From what I understand, records were terribly kept back in the 70's when many of the founding animals were captured. I guess there were so many of them that collectors and breeders never thought to seek the exact place the animal was caught. The other problem you run in to is legality (certainly none of the forum regulars whom I know). You know how it is...sometimes people don't want to get into locality when all the paperwork (or lack thereof) will lead back to them!

However, c'mon...join the Drymarchon club. We always have room for one more! I'll even help you out by taking some ruthveni to cleat cage space!
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Anthony Chodan

www.gradeareptiles.com

Rob-
I would think that an established facility like yours that does education (and research?) would probably have the best shot at negotiating access to the zoo gene pool that is probably not well represented in public. Obviously it would take time to build the necessary relationships and hop over/under hurdles but I feel at least that much can be accomplished in time. I know it doesn't always equate to wc animals but...? -anyone try that approach or something similar yet?

Dave Boyle

Becoming an AZA member would put a zoo in contention to trade among others. The AZA can be kinda cultish in my opinion but there's some pro's to being a member as well.